RDC collection move from DRM to Lincoln, NH

DutchRailnut wrote:no HRRC, they did switching in yard, P&W CT2 took the cars that night, so that was one interchange, and since P&W runs over Metro North tracks, its still a safety concern.
Next is Panam then some other railroad in New Hampshire.
ps first available repair shop would be SLE or MNCR in New Haven

HRRC picked them up and set them off at Tilcon and yes p&w runs over Metro North once they hit Derby but are we sure P&W picked them up? Is there any chance they left from HRRC in Mass? As to the question of how did they get permission for the move look at how P&W moved those two 44tonners from EB to Danbury RR museum or how did RMNE get to run the hospital train from saybrook to waterbury including that canadian pacific 1246 It can happen its all in who you know!

My question is why is this even being discussed? Are you guys trying to ensure these cars don't come back to Danbury by stating whats going on? I highly doubt that three or 4 common carriers are going to move something without all "the ducks in a row." I mean seriously no freight railroad is gonna stick the neck out for some old piece of equipment. There is most likely some correct way this was handled and I think those in the know should just keep it to themselves. I nominate this thread to be locked/removed. If indeed something shady was done then people get fined and do you really wanna be the one responsible for dropping the dime on multiple people/companies? If anything bad happens because of mention of this I hope the owner SCRAPS the cars because some nosy railfan butted in where they don't belong. LET SLEEPING DOGS LIE!!!!

O.k. my rant is over lets lock this thread or remove it in its entirety......

HighlandRail/DEY-7 652 wrote:My question is why is this even being discussed? Are you guys trying to ensure these cars don't come back to Danbury by stating whats going on? I highly doubt that three or 4 common carriers are going to move something without all "the ducks in a row." I mean seriously no freight railroad is gonna stick the neck out for some old piece of equipment. There is most likely some correct way this was handled and I think those in the know should just keep it to themselves. I nominate this thread to be locked/removed. If indeed something shady was done then people get fined and do you really wanna be the one responsible for dropping the dime on multiple people/companies? If anything bad happens because of mention of this I hope the owner SCRAPS the cars because some nosy railfan butted in where they don't belong. LET SLEEPING DOGS LIE!!!!

O.k. my rant is over lets lock this thread or remove it in its entirety......

There is no correct way to send equipment that is not guaranteed to be safe out on the line in the hands of people that don't know the status of the safety equipment on those cars. I would far rather never see those cars again than find out that somebody got killed as a result of the crews not being told about the cars having no working brakes.

A class one brake test determines whether or not they have brakes, the crew doesn't just find out along the way.

HighlandRail/DEY-7 652 wrote:...If indeed something shady was done then people get fined and do you really wanna be the one responsible for dropping the dime on multiple people/companies?...

If it involves compromising safety, then yes, I would be proud to be the one responsible for "dropping the dime".

Gentlemen,

There are some sweeping assumptions being made here. I think everyone needs to step back, take a breath, and look at "just the facts." Obviously the P&W crew felt, in their professional opinion, confident enough to move the equipment. Therefore, the proper paper work and safety precautions were taken, not to mention, if something did go awry while in route, rest assured P&W (or any other carrier) would have that equipment on a siding so quick it would make your head spin. I too am bothered by the fact this is being broadcasted around the information superhighway. As I said above, you know what happens when one "ASSume(s)"

The fact is historic equipment is becoming more difficult to move for a variety of reasons, one being a complete lack of knowledge on the part of crews. At this point moving anything pre 1970 might as well be like bringing your Model T to the local Ford dealership for servicing. Rest assured, if the crew was not given incredibly specific instructions about the equipment in question, it was not going to turn a wheel. As I said before, this type of gossip is going to do nothing but stop any type of vintage equipment from EVER moving through the system again. There are plenty of entities out there already looking out for the safety of railroaders, we do not need digital martial law.

DutchRailnut wrote:no HRRC, they did switching in yard, P&W CT2 took the cars that night, so that was one interchange, and since P&W runs over Metro North tracks, its still a safety concern.
Next is Panam then some other railroad in New Hampshire.
ps first available repair shop would be SLE or MNCR in New Haven

The route:

Pan Am Railways to Manchester, NH

New England Southern Railroad from Manchester, NH to Tilton (Sargent Street Siding) or Belmont, NH (Lochmere)

Plymouth & Lincoln Railroad from Tilton (Sargent Street Siding) or Belmont, NH (Lochmere)
to Lincoln, NH

So the route was: P&W to Derby Jct, then Pan-Am north to Waterbury to Berlin to Amtrak/Pan Am to Springfield, then Pan Am to East Deerfield, then east on the main to Lowell , then north to NH?

When the cars first went up there, they went via the Shore Line, but then again they weren't coming from Danbury... they were from Middlefield on the Air Line.

P&W does not interchange at Derby with Panam, P&W took them to Cedar Hill and then upto Massachusets to interchange with Panam.

DutchRailnut wrote:P&W does not interchange at Derby with Panam, P&W took them to Cedar Hill and then upto Massachusets to interchange with Panam.

So they did run over the Shore Line? And I missed it. Odd I didn't read about it in the applicable Yahoogroups. Slackers on there...

The shoreline is east of New Haven so no theydid not go over shoreline.
Danbury to Devon or South Norwalk, New Haven line to New Haven and Cedar hill, then north towards providence.

Dutch another thing to consider, non compliant equipment can be moved if tagged "brakes inoperative" by a car inspector and if it has at least one car with functional brakes on either end of it. How would a wreck damaged car(s) or locomotive(s) be moved? Again I know for a fact that 3 freight railroads would not move something illegally with personal and company fines involved. And if they did again I will state I HOPE THE OWNER SCRAPS THESE CARS because someone stuck there nose where it didn't belong. Leave freight railroading up to those who do it, I hope this thread starts a precedent that gets ALL HISTORIC equipment banned from movement on ALL freight railroads in the Northeast, then perhaps your mission will be accomplished. Assumptions get all of us no where. And again waivers were probably obtained.

Inoperative equipment can be moved but only to nearest repair facility, in this case that would be MNCR or SLE shop in New Haven.
Where the equipment must be made in compliance.(note wording "nearest forward repair point")


TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER II--FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION

PART 229_RAILROAD LOCOMOTIVE SAFETY STANDARDS--Table of Contents

Subpart A_General

Sec. 229.9 Movement of non-complying locomotives.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c) and Sec. 229.125(h),
a locomotive with one or more conditions not in compliance with this
part may be moved only as a lite locomotive or a dead locomotive after
the carrier has complied with the following:
(1) A qualified person shall determine--
(i) That it is safe to move the locomotive; and
(ii) The maximum speed and other restrictions necessary for safely
conducting the movement;
(2)(i) The engineer in charge of the movement of the locomotive
shall be notified in writing and inform all other crew members in the
cab of the presence of the non-complying locomotive and the maximum
speed and other restrictions determined under paragraph (a)(1)(ii) of
this section.
(ii) A copy of the tag described in paragraph (a)(3) of this section
may be used to provide the notification required by paragraph (a)(2)(i)
of this section.
(3) A tag bearing the words ``non-complying locomotive'' and
containing the following information, shall be securely attached to the
control stand on each MU or control cab locomotive and to the isolation
switch or near the engine start switch on every other type of
locomotive--
(i) The locomotive number;
(ii) The name of the inspecting carrier;
(iii) The inspection location and date;
(iv) The nature of each defect;
(v) Movement restrictions, if any;
(vi) The destination; and

[[Page 425]]

(vii) The signature of the person making the determinations required
by this paragraph.
(b) A locomotive that develops a non-complying condition enroute may
continue to utilize its propelling motors, if the requirements of
paragraph (a) are otherwise fully met, until the earlier of--
(1) The next calendar day inspection, or
(2) The nearest forward point where the repairs necessary to bring
it into compliance can be made.
(c) A non-complying locomotive may be moved lite or dead within a
yard, at speeds not in excess of 10 miles per hour, without meeting the
requirements of paragraph (a) of this section if the movement is solely
for the purpose of repair. The carrier is responsible to insure that the
movement may be safely made.
(d) A dead locomotive may not continue in use following a calendar
day inspection as a controlling locomotive or at the head of a train or
locomotive consist.
(e) A locomotive does not cease to be a locomotive because its
propelling motor or motors are inoperative or because its control jumper
cables are not connected.
(f) Nothing in this section authorizes the movement of a locomotive
subject to a Special Notice for Repair unless the movement is made in
accordance with the restrictions contained in the Special Notice.
(g) Paragraphs (a), (b), and (c) of this section shall not apply to
sanitation conditions covered by Sec. Sec. 229.137 and 229.139.
Sections 229.137 and 229.139 set forth specific requirements for the
movement and repair of locomotives with defective sanitation
compartments.

DutchRailnut wrote:The shoreline is east of New Haven so no theydid not go over shoreline.
Danbury to Devon or South Norwalk, New Haven line to New Haven and Cedar hill, then north towards providence.

If P&W forwarded the cars, then they couldn't go north of New Haven because that's CSOR. Sure, they could've gone up the Air Line but still no interchange in Hartford. From New Haven, the only way for P&W to go "north" is to go east on the Shore Line to Groton then up to Worcester then to either Gardner or towards Lowell for the PAR to pick up.

There are exceptions to everything. I am aware of another impending move with ancient equipment on a major freight
railroad very, very soon. I will not tell anybody on here about it so don't bother sending me a PM asking what or where.
This could have been a nice line informing us of an interesting move with interesting equipment. Instead it has turned into
a blast at the railroad museums and volunteers and others who are trying their best to preserve some very historic stuff.
I think all of you are making a mountain out of an ant hill. Under the present circumstances, I too, suggest that this one
be locked up. Seems to me that some on here just want to "back stab".
Noel Weaver