Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

That funding suggestion may not be so far fetched. There was some talk last night about "linkage", where developers who stand to benefit could be persuaded to help pay for it.

If that were to become the case, the Arborway Line would be a "cash cow" as I cannot think of any other line with as many large, prominent institutions along it's path. It makes perfect sense to me, as increased patronage is usually a boon for an institution but a burden for the T with increased maintenance and other infra-structure costs.

newpylong wrote:Mr. Koch practically has his own Orange line stop lol

Newpy, i just cant embrace the new Orange line, so I was not thinking of it being there. But trolleys are more quainter,altho the walk down to the brew mix house from Hyde Square might be a little hairy, unless you got the Rail as muscle wit you....

Teamdriver wrote: trolleys are more quainter,altho the walk down to the brew mix house from Hyde Square might be a little hairy, unless you got the Rail as muscle wit you....

You guys couldn't afford my rates.

highgreen215 wrote: Legal support for the extension is rooted in the mitigation measures that were agreed upon for the Big Dig.

A judge, and the state Superior Court on appeal said otherwise. That's why there's no Arborway line right now. The T didn't take down the poles just to put them back up again.

MarkB wrote:

highgreen215 wrote: Legal support for the extension is rooted in the mitigation measures that were agreed upon for the Big Dig.

A judge, and the state Superior Court on appeal said otherwise. That's why there's no Arborway line right now. The T didn't take down the poles just to put them back up again.

Actually, I'm pretty sure every single trolley pole is still standing, quite remarkably...

So... we have:

1. Every trolley pole still standing
2. A transmission line (still actively pumping juice the full length of the route!)
3. Tracks buried under a thin layer of pavement in some sections

Practically the only thing they removed is the overhead wires.

MarkB wrote:

highgreen215 wrote: Legal support for the extension is rooted in the mitigation measures that were agreed upon for the Big Dig.

A judge, and the state Superior Court on appeal said otherwise. That's why there's no Arborway line right now. The T didn't take down the poles just to put them back up again.

Oh? It's not like the T doesn't do futile things occasionally- they rebuilt the line only to never run a train on it again, after all.

MarkB is correct in the judge's decision against restoring the full Arborway line. At that time the T and the City didn't want to do it - the City is generally in favor of it now, the T may have to be persuaded. Not sure if lame duck Menino supports it but that may be self correcting with a new mayor. Today there are different circumstances and restoration all the way through congested JP is not being proposed. A little pressure from deep pocket developers doesn't hurt either. This one could actually happen.

So far, and admittedly we're still in the infancy of this thing, I don't see the opposition that was present before. Maybe it's early, but maybe there's a change of heart or even an acceptance that it is inevitable, or just an unwillingness to fight it over again. I hope that the green light casts its light on the full expansion and that this vital service resumes. With fingers crossed...

I stand corrected. From the Jamaica Plain Gazette:

"The poles have been unused and rusting since 1985, when the MBTA halted the Arborway Green Line trolley service through Jamaica Plain. It is technically possible that streetcar service could be restored by a still-pending legal decision, but the old poles could not be reused either way."


So I was wrong. But for the purpose of this discussion, I was right - the poles can't be used in any case. And please note that the T can't even fund the removal of these poles. Where is the money going to come from to put in a new line? There's a difference between 'it would be nice' and 'we can do it.' There is no money to do it.

MarkB wrote:I stand corrected. From the Jamaica Plain Gazette:

"The poles have been unused and rusting since 1985, when the MBTA halted the Arborway Green Line trolley service through Jamaica Plain. It is technically possible that streetcar service could be restored by a still-pending legal decision, but the old poles could not be reused either way."


So I was wrong. But for the purpose of this discussion, I was right - the poles can't be used in any case. And please note that the T can't even fund the removal of these poles. Where is the money going to come from to put in a new line? There's a difference between 'it would be nice' and 'we can do it.' There is no money to do it.

Pole replacement isn't expensive. They would have to inventory them all. Some are probably salvageable with a scraping and new paint job. Some can be replaced while using the same base. And some would probably have had to be moved anyway given that panto wire is less precisely strung around curves than trolley wire.

Obviously the track is not "sleeping" under a thin layer of pavement and reusable at-will. It's been through every freeze-thaw cycle since 1989 and the T still insists on using wood ties and ballast under-street instead of a sturdier and more resilient base so all of that would be a rip-out/replace.

But wires, poles, and track are not the most expensive part of the infrastructure. The power draw is. And the power draw is still live underground along the whole route to Forest Hills. Even with state-of-repair upgrades and a power boost provisioning for 3-car LRV's, the fact that it's already trenched and accessible under-street, live and in working order, and with available hookups every X many poles to the overhead takes the single biggest edge off the total cost of the project.


I do agree a sea change at City Hall and the BRA with those bully pulpits pushing some real transit advocacy for a change could get something like this built in spite of the T's intransigence. The T is a path-of-least-resistance political animal. Even a relatively powerless municipality like Somerville has been able to force their hand by being relentlessly organized about GLX and quick to pounce on exit loopholes. Building it became the path of least resistance. City of Boston's problem is that they just have never wanted anything bad enough--save for the Silver Line and eye-candy like Yawkey station--to force things through to completion. Even Fairmount, which infrastructurally did get completed, is half-assed in that the city let its guard down about pursuing the full service plan to completion. And thus the headways are still far from useful at achieving the project's goals. Neighborhood-driven advocacy in particular has been continuously undercut by City Hall. If Menino's replacement and the BRA are willing to push stuff without quickly losing interest, we might actually see some movement at basic stuff like completing the mythical Key Bus Route Improvements, lower-hanging fruit Green Line improvements like this, T-under-D on the Silver Line, building @#$% Red-Blue already, scaling up the Fairmount headways to something resembling the original plan, a more honest stab at the 28X/Mattapan plan or the additional Crosstown Bus rollout in no-build Urban Ring Phase I, etc. Stuff on a wide spectrum of priority levels but individually in the "doable" division if the obvious structural reforms were made...with the difference of the city giving zero-tolerance for weasel words.

3rdrail wrote:

Teamdriver wrote: trolleys are more quainter,altho the walk down to the brew mix house from Hyde Square might be a little hairy, unless you got the Rail as muscle wit you....

You guys couldn't afford my rates.

My Rail , a few glasses and some grilled sausage from the bar at Triple D's will pay your freight bill!

I've had better offers than that from the Centerfolds girls- and they didn't include sausages, either !

F-line is right on the money!

3rdrail wrote:I've had better offers than that from the Centerfolds girls- and they didn't include sausages, either !

My Rail , those sausages were better than anything you could get outside fenway, reallly sopped up all the beer so you could navigate home!