Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

According to the originally posted link (http://www.bankerandtradesman.com/news154016.html -- which, according to my recent access of it, is set now to subscribers-only), the BRA was behind this -- that doesn't happen without Menino's blessing.

I don't see how the MBTA's financials are relevant to the capital cost, seeing as pretty much every project seems to come out of the state's pocket. Not that the state can just waltz around throwing fistfuls of cash everywhere, but the fare hikes seem irrelevant.

At least between Bynner at Perkins, the rails are still there, just paved over..

Every summer the road gets hot, expands and the rails are visible from the street.

It would be interesting to see if they will somehow get this to forest hills, but I wouldn't count on it to happen in our lifetime.

Happy Easter to everyone and I wish the best of luck to Mayor Menino when he retires at the end of the year.

I don't think they tore up the rails in this section, just paved them over. But it makes no difference as new ballast, ties and rails would probably be layed anyway. I think the most logical turnaround is to change ends on South Huntington at or near Canary Square (the junction of So. Hunt. and Centre) as at Brigham Circle. Re Arborway: unfortunately the traffic at certain times of the day is just too heavy on Centre St. in central JP. The buses are commonly stalled in it, but at least they can move out of the way for emergency vehicles.

There is little reason to go all the way back to Forest Hills with the Orange Line offering a much faster trip into town and even parts of JP. Furthermore, I think putting it back on said streets would be an absolute disaster operationally speaking with all of the congestion these days.

That said, I own property in JP, I honestly don't think you would see serious pushback if they ever wanted to bring it back though. I think it would help an already improving neighborhood and people would be largely for it. Honestly, most of the people there weren't even around when the Green Line went to Forest Hills. I second the person who mentioned Canary square as a great idea for the next step. Long term I think the Monument square would be a perfect area for a loop effectively covering the entirety of the Centre/South street corridor without going into the mess of Forest Hills or overlapping Orange Line service territory.

If you're going to Monument Square, you might as well go the extra mile to reach Forest Hills.

I agree but I'm not sure if the need is there unless they want to just re-use the old carbarn area for the loop. That area is effectively going to be a highway when the Arborway comes down and I suspect things will change drastically.

highgreen215 wrote:I don't think they tore up the rails in this section, just paved them over. But it makes no difference as new ballast, ties and rails would probably be layed anyway. I think the most logical turnaround is to change ends on South Huntington at or near Canary Square (the junction of So. Hunt. and Centre) as at Brigham Circle. Re Arborway: unfortunately the traffic at certain times of the day is just too heavy on Centre St. in central JP. The buses are commonly stalled in it, but at least they can move out of the way for emergency vehicles.

The key piece of preserved infrastructure is the power feed. That's still live and underground all the way to Forest Hills (and is likewise live on the ex-A line too, still feeding Watertown carhouse). Would have to be upgraded for state of repair and the power requirements of modern LRV's, but having that feed already there takes a large edge off the cost. Especially if thinking smaller like Hyde.

newpylong wrote:There is little reason to go all the way back to Forest Hills with the Orange Line offering a much faster trip into town and even parts of JP. Furthermore, I think putting it back on said streets would be an absolute disaster operationally speaking with all of the congestion these days.

If this were true then it would surely be a waste of resources making higher capacity buses from a limited fleet travel from near downtown Boston to Forest Hills when there's a much larger bus facility right there. The line is currently what the state tries to pass off as Rapid Transit anyways, but it's quite obviously not enough since we're even having this conversation. Also, I can't help but mention that the Arborway line coexisted with the Main Line Elevated for decades.

Automobile traffic congestion inhibiting transit improvements is exactly backwards. First of all, the fact that such congestion exists indicates the demand is there. If people were given a more viable solution they'd use it. In an urban setting, private automobiles do not make sense as they are extremely inefficient and it's simply a waste of real estate providing the roadways and parking facilities for a car per person going into the central populous. The ideal set up the way I see it is that private vehicles be completely banned from city streets at least during business hours keeping roadways clear for delivery trucks, transit vehicles, bikes, pedestrians, and public safety, and public utility vehicles. In order for this to work, we need a much more extensive and efficiently operated system. Expanding the infrastructure (especially back to levels at which it once existed) is step 1.

I have to disagree with most of what you posted, newpylong. Briefly, the Orange Line doesn't serve the purpose that the streetcar did, and that is to directly connect Forest Hills/Arborway with the persons coming into the prohibited parking area of the hospital and medical school area from neighborhoods south of Forest Hills. And I certainly agree that to come to the Monument and not Forest Hills would be giving up the best part of this extension. I would suggest that the Arborway be re-built as a storage/maintenance facility as the "loop that never was" was built and designed well with direct access to Forest Hills Station, almost like back in the old days. On the other hand, like the old days, there is no need to walk across New Washington St. to access the Arborway with the terminal at Forest Hills Station.

What are you people talking about that trolleys should loop at the monument? First, the most serious traffic congestion occurs in the JP central business district BEFORE you get to the monument coming outbound. Second, the monument area is sacred historic ground and, except for the stretch of road where the Arborway trolleys ran, should not be scarred by tracks and catenary. There have even been serious proposals to eliminate the roadway between the monument and the church to create a green parkland there. No, the monument is NOT the right place for a loop.

Agreed that the Monument is a poor idea. This is what I would do: I'd base the terminal at Forest Hills utilizing the Arborway Yard for storage and maintenance. Forest Hills>running along the Southwest Corridor to Green St. (the Corridor already is zoned for commercial transportation, so how hard would it be to throw in a two-way streetcar line ? The infrastructure to tie into is already there !)>Run west up Green St.>right into Centre St. This way, you eliminate 90 % of the Centre/South traffic congestion right there putting the line into what is a more transit friendly location. For those that would say that you would only be duplicating the Orange Line between Forest Hills and Green St, you would not because this would only be a transitional exit/entrance from Forest Hills to solve the traffic and street running issues here as the streetcar line would then then divert to the hospital/school area.

Are you actually proposing putting it through the park, above and to the side of the trench? The only room there is, and that is if there is room, would be on the east side, and that would mean moving the path to the other side near Green. Pigs have a better chance of flying. Can you imagine the pushback from this proposal? You also would be leaving out the riders to the west.

Everyone's comments are dully noted, perhaps my ideas of stopping short of FH were shortsighted. If given the option I would restore it exactly back where it was up South Steet. But at this point any extension would benefit the neighborhood.

I think people are getting ahead of themselves... the proposal is for a short extension to an area that isn't served well by the Orange Line, and has wider streets. If it's a success then we can start talking about pushing towards Arborway. (And there'll be more popular demand for it, too)

As for using Arborway Yard, isn't the layover yard that will be built for GLX supposed to be enough to handle the long-term needs of the E-line? Unlike today where all it has is diminutive Lechmere.

I think the BRA angle is interesting here...