Hurricane Irene

tgolanos wrote:The first two pics are the NHSL, but I wish the other 2 pictures were labelled.

The first one (http://www.septa.org/service/pictures/2011-08-28e.jpg) looks like it's at a stairway up from the street to the outbound platform. I've not seen an "outbound trains" sign like that before, and there's the footing of a lollipop sign next to the stairs.

The second one (http://www.septa.org/service/pictures/2011-08-28f.jpg) looks to have a relatively new bridge in the background, probably over a stream where the floodwaters were trying to carry the dumpster.

Those bigger copies help anyone?

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

tgolanos wrote:The first two pics are the NHSL, but I wish the other 2 pictures were labelled.

The first one (http://www.septa.org/service/pictures/2011-08-28e.jpg) looks like it's at a stairway up from the street to the outbound platform. I've not seen an "outbound trains" sign like that before, and there's the footing of a lollipop sign next to the stairs.

The second one (http://www.septa.org/service/pictures/2011-08-28f.jpg) looks to have a relatively new bridge in the background, probably over a stream where the floodwaters were trying to carry the dumpster.

Those bigger copies help anyone?

Matt, I cant tell where that first picture that you linked is, but the second picture is just south of Fort Washington Station. That new bridge is the replacement bridge to the one that was washed away in 1999(?). Matt, I saw you in the news clip and well I expected you to look a bit different but I was disappointed when they interviewed Luther Diggs because he claims they didnt know that Trenton Station was a problem. Huh? Everyone knew that it was. Another interesting thing to note is that AGM Ron Hopkins was sitting in front of monitors that showed the Amtrak RR. Are these monitors located in the RROC? Does Septa finally have the capability to see there trains on Amtrak and if thats the case Im tired of hearing that they dont know where the trains are because they cant see on Amtrak

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Matt, I cant tell where that first picture that you linked is, but the second picture is just south of Fort Washington Station. That new bridge is the replacement bridge to the one that was washed away in 1999(?).

Right! Now I recognize the apartment building in the background. What threw me is that that isn't the SEPTA parking lot: it's a little office building to the south. The Sandy Run washout was in 2001 (I'm getting old...).

Matthew Mitchell wrote:The first one (http://www.septa.org/service/pictures/2011-08-28e.jpg) looks like it's at a stairway up from the street to the outbound platform. I've not seen an "outbound trains" sign like that before, and there's the footing of a lollipop sign next to the stairs.

I took a good look at the first picture. It looks almost like Clifton-Aldan. I rail-fanned the 101 and 102 the other week and transferred to the RRD there. There's a pedestrian underpass and sidewalk on Springfield Road, but I don't recall seeing a sign like that for the inbound or outbound trains.

tgolanos wrote:I took a good look at the first picture. It looks almost like Clifton-Aldan. I rail-fanned the 101 and 102 the other week and transferred to the RRD there. There's a pedestrian underpass and sidewalk on Springfield Road, but I don't recall seeing a sign like that for the inbound or outbound trains.

That's not Clifton-Aldan (which is down the street from me). The brick-work there is much thicker and between the street and pedestrian tunnel. Between the wall and the tunnel they paved it smooth . I've never seen those signs, either.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:
Matt, I cant tell where that first picture that you linked is, but the second picture is just south of Fort Washington Station. That new bridge is the replacement bridge to the one that was washed away in 1999(?). Matt, I saw you in the news clip and well I expected you to look a bit different but I was disappointed when they interviewed Luther Diggs because he claims they didnt know that Trenton Station was a problem. Huh? Everyone knew that it was. Another interesting thing to note is that AGM Ron Hopkins was sitting in front of monitors that showed the Amtrak RR. Are these monitors located in the RROC? Does Septa finally have the capability to see there trains on Amtrak and if thats the case Im tired of hearing that they dont know where the trains are because they cant see on Amtrak

Spin control from Septa and Diggs. And Hopkins is NOT an AGM. He is the former head of the Safety Group who for some unknown reason was put in charge of the Control Center at SEPTA a few years ago (No, he didn't have a background in the Control Center) You can bet in meetings leading up to Irene, moving equipment from Trenton WAS discussed. And Septa did have limited advanced warning that they were shutting the tracks down.

What you saw was a map of the tracks at Trenton that is available to view in the RROC. Septa does not have the ability to see real time train movements on Amtrak territory. Septa is dependent on Amtrak (or Septa crews) to tell them what is going on in Amtrak territory.

Whoops, somehow I thought Ron was made into an AGM when Joe Casey came in. Regarding that model board screen seen in the news of Trenton,its the same exact screen the dispatchers see, station personel in Trenton and even the NJT crew area in Trenton Station and they show all train movements. I just reviewed the news video again and you can clearly see(I Know what Im looking for) the trains and the label above the train .Septa can see where are there trains are in real time. Speaking of Amtrak and the NEC ops, Amtrak can see onto Metro North,Csx and the NS. Before I left the RRD I know very well what the RROC sees and what the train crews had to do. I had to call septa a thousand times when running late on amtrak.This is why Im asking is this something thats only in Ron Hopkins office? This screen would surely come in handy to the Septa 6 dispatcher so that he knows his trains are coming in late from the "south Side" which is Wilmington, Trenton, Cynwyd and Thorndale services

Launcher wrote:Bethayres is one that frequently floods to, from what I've heard. They've since put in disclaimer signs about that lot being flood prone.

The permit lot on the inbound side is more susceptible to floods than the outbound daily lot, and that's where the disclaimer signs are located. I park in the daily lot for at several different reasons, including this susceptibility. Sometimes, I park in a gravel lot owned by Gloria Dei Church that the church allows SEPTA to use for overflow parking. (But since it's free, people park there even when the official SEPTA daily lot fills up.)

When rain is in the forecast, I try to park on the uphill end of the daily pay lot. If I had parked on higher ground in the permit lot on that day in 1989, my car MAY have been spared. However, the floodwaters come from that direction, and if they were high enough, even that wouldn't have helped. I also don't park in the free Gloria Dei lot when rain is in the forecast.

I have seen the daily lot flooded once in my recent years of taking the train. One Thursday night in December two or three years ago, either after I had already driven away or on a day I didn't take the train, the lot flooded as the result of an evening rain storm, possibly a Northeaster. On Friday morning, that lot was closed. Fortunately, I had enough time to drive to Philmont to get the train there. (Otherwise, I would have driven to work, where we have acres of free parking. Yes, some people think I am crazy to take the train when I don't have to pay to park, and there are enough spaces.) Also fortunately, I remembered to get off at the right station that night. A conductor saw me descending from the train and called after me, thinking I was getting off at the wrong stop. I told her why I was doing this.

Ironically, an author I enjoy was scheduled to appear at the Free Library of Philadelphia that Thursday night. I had seen him at an earlier appearance he had made there, so I had decided to skip this one. If I had gone directly into town on the train from work, I may very well have lost another car at Bethayres!

On Saturday night, April 30, 2005, a big rainstorm hit the area. The next day, as I drove past the permit lot entrance to the Bethayres Station, I noticed a Lower Moreland police car blocking the entrance. I figured that the lot had flooded again. Eventually, I learned that there had been pedestrian fatalities (two elderly women) at Bethayres that morning, and the station had been closed. I sure wish the lot had been closed instead because of flooding!

silverlinerfan22 wrote:And Hopkins is NOT an AGM. He is the former head of the Safety Group who for some unknown reason was put in charge of the Control Center at SEPTA a few years ago (No, he didn't have a background in the Control Center)

Hopkins is a professional engineer by training. I've sat in the control center 'war room' during a blizzard, and IMHO, he's extremely capable.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Whoops, somehow I thought Ron was made into an AGM when Joe Casey came in. Regarding that model board screen seen in the news of Trenton,its the same exact screen the dispatchers see, station personel in Trenton and even the NJT crew area in Trenton Station and they show all train movements. I just reviewed the news video again and you can clearly see(I Know what Im looking for) the trains and the label above the train .Septa can see where are there trains are in real time. Speaking of Amtrak and the NEC ops, Amtrak can see onto Metro North,Csx and the NS. Before I left the RRD I know very well what the RROC sees and what the train crews had to do. I had to call septa a thousand times when running late on amtrak.This is why Im asking is this something thats only in Ron Hopkins office? This screen would surely come in handy to the Septa 6 dispatcher so that he knows his trains are coming in late from the "south Side" which is Wilmington, Trenton, Cynwyd and Thorndale services

The only place I know of in the RROC that has the terminal to view Amtrak is in the delay clerk/TIDS control area (behind Alvin's desk) Desks 1 through 3 have terminals connected to CSX's CTC on which they can see the location of approachng freight trains. NS properties are included on there as well. In turn, CSX has the ability to monitor SEPTA's CTC. It would surely make sense for 6 to have the Amtrak monitor as well, but I figure since the TIDS area is right across from them, they probably just shout over and ask, or maybe walk over and look at it themselves. The STO is also within reasonable conversational distance, being just behind 6. Haven't observed any of this personally, as I'm on the opposite end of the room on the occasion that I work up there.

limejuice wrote: The only place I know of in the RROC that has the terminal to view Amtrak is in the delay clerk/TIDS control area (behind Alvin's desk) Desks 1 through 3 have terminals connected to CSX's CTC on which they can see the location of approachng freight trains. NS properties are included on there as well. In turn, CSX has the ability to monitor SEPTA's CTC. It would surely make sense for 6 to have the Amtrak monitor as well, but I figure since the TIDS area is right across from them, they probably just shout over and ask, or maybe walk over and look at it themselves. The STO is also within reasonable conversational distance, being just behind 6. Haven't observed any of this personally, as I'm on the opposite end of the room on the occasion that I work up there.

I didn't know Amtrak gave them that info. Last I knew (and it has been awhile) they were still dependent on Amtrak telling them or crews calling in delays. Things have really progressed. And I've got to ask, who's Alvin?

silverlinerfan22 wrote:And I've got to ask, who's Alvin?

Alvin Elliott, voice of the Alvinator.

To be clear the only real-time Amtrak CETC territory shared with the Railroad Control Center is is the NY Division East of Holmesburg. That display was provided for the information specialist to make accurate announcements in reference to trains leaving Trenton for Philadelphia. No other real-time CETC information is shared or available to the Railroad Control Center.

Do we now have any explanation for why SEPTA left 2 trains at Trenton?
It's now been more than a week. I'm sure there's hardly anybody who believes that leaving equipment in flood prone Trenton was a good idea.