Hurricane Irene

Two septa diesels came through HOLMES last night around 11:50pm for the flooded cars, and made it as far as MORRIS and were stuck waiting in the parade through FAIR/Trenton on Tracks 1, 2, 3 and 4 all saw action. We gave up around 2am ...

Jtgshu wrote:

EDM5970 wrote:I couldn't find it just now, but either in printed media or online I read that some spokesperson from SEPTA stated that they were expecting only minimal damage on those two trainsets. Totally submerged traction motors, switchgear, and transformers that run on an 11K primary voltage? Minimal damage? I think not-

I saw that too - I think thats a load of BS and that they are just saying that to save face from the f-up of leaving the equipment there....

Remember that when they say "spokesman" they usually mean someone from the PR department; putting on a happy face is what they do.

Jtgshu wrote:

EDM5970 wrote:I couldn't find it just now, but either in printed media or online I read that some spokesperson from SEPTA stated that they were expecting only minimal damage on those two trainsets. Totally submerged traction motors, switchgear, and transformers that run on an 11K primary voltage? Minimal damage? I think not-

I saw that too - I think thats a load of BS and that they are just saying that to save face from the f-up of leaving the equipment there....

The real BS is the fact that SEPTA didn't move the cars *before* the storm. That FUBAR moment seemed to come right out of the Faye Moore playbook.

ctrabs74 wrote:

Jtgshu wrote:

EDM5970 wrote:I couldn't find it just now, but either in printed media or online I read that some spokesperson from SEPTA stated that they were expecting only minimal damage on those two trainsets. Totally submerged traction motors, switchgear, and transformers that run on an 11K primary voltage? Minimal damage? I think not-

I saw that too - I think thats a load of BS and that they are just saying that to save face from the f-up of leaving the equipment there....

The real BS is the fact that SEPTA didn't move the cars *before* the storm. That FUBAR moment seemed to come right out of the Faye Moore playbook.

So who's going to have enough "brass" to contact SEPTA leadership and ask (or demand) who, exactly, was the numbskull that made this decision??? It should be news to nobody in a senior Railroad Division leadership position that the Trenton station area floods like crazy when massive rainfall hits the region.

If the person or persons directly responsible for the f-up know that there are eyes upon them, perhaps they'll think twice next time before doing something else of the same magnitude of stupid. Causing needless hazard to rolling stock and incurring a cost center due to signifigant repairs being required before the cars can resume revenue service? Yes, that's plenty of stupid right there. My tax-paying checkbook is not pleased. A ten-year-old kid can display better stewardship of assets.

Franklin Gowen wrote:So who's going to have enough "brass" to contact SEPTA leadership and ask (or demand) who, exactly, was the numbskull that made this decision???

The Citizen Advisory Committee... I hope.

It should be news to nobody in a senior Railroad Division leadership position that the Trenton station area floods like crazy when massive rainfall hits the region.

Yes. Not to mention Amtrak shutting down the railroad.

AFAIK, there was a temporary person in charge of rail operations this month a/c Hanratty's resignation. I don't know whether or not that contributed to the lapse in thinking.

This is probably as good a place as any to relate 'my' SEPTA story, the only time I had contact with them in a professional capacity. I have ridden their trains, trolleys and subways quite a few times, though.

Many years ago, I was a partner and employee of one of the first contract switching carriers. In terms of operations and from a business standpoint, we were very successful. However, the economy went sour, and we lost our contract as our client all but shut down his plant. Seeking another job in rail operations or management, I updated my resume and sent it, with appropriate cover letters, to everyone in the Pocket List within the immediate area, including SEPTA.

In my cover letter, I pointed out the fact that I had experience as an engineer and conductor, and had worked my way throgh college, including some summers spent doing track work. I also stated that I was an NCO in the Army Reserve.

I received a call from a woman in SEPTA's personnel department a few weeks after I sent them my resume. After thanking me for sending my resume and being interested in employment with SEPTA, she asked me if I could drive a bus!

That first question was very instructive, as it gave me great insight into the mindset at 1234 Market. And it seems that in the intervening decades, things haven't changed too much.

Amtrak7 wrote:NJT is back at Trenton, with 30-45 min delays. SEPTA is still turning at Levittown. Why?

The 2 Septa train sets are still at Trenton with flood damage. One is at the platform and for service to resume at Trenton the set has to be removed from the platform. (May not be that case no more regarding if the sets were removed already)

And doesn't SEPTA keep 3 sets at Trenton overnight? I remember riding a NJT train to Hamilton back a while ago and saw another set of IV's sitting further down the track from the push & pull set. Was that IV set on the platform supposed to be moved farther past the push pull for overnight storage or was it regular procedures?

Does SEPTA use a dedicated/different platform at TRE? As they're starting to provide shuttle buses tomorrow and find it odd that Amtrak has the corridor open and they can't run trains.

I would assume 2 trainsets can be removed before tomorrow morning's rush....

Payback time!

No, I don't really want SEPTA to have to discard the trains that got flooded, and all of the taxpayers will have to foot the bill if they do. But sentimentally, if SEPTA loses some trains as a result of this flood, I may not cry too hard.

Thursday, June 22, 1989. I was commuting daily to Center City from Bethayres. I had a monthly parking permit. My job was scheduled to end in late June or early July. Ironically, I had had an interview for a potential new job in a suburban location scheduled for that day, but the interviewing company changed the date to the following Tuesday. (There are worse things than having a job interview on your birthday, as I was soon to discover.)

At some point that afternoon, the skies opened up. When I went to Suburban Station to get the train, I learned that service had been suspended on the West Trenton line. We were told to take a train to Wayne Junction and board shuttle busses there. (Yes, back then, SEPTA was able to deploy shuttle busses on short notice!) I remember hearing a dispatcher at Wayne Junction point to a bus going to "Warminister" (a pronunciation I also heard once on a Flyers broadcast noting Flyers Cup games played at the rink formerly known as Face-Off Circle), so it wasn't just our line that was out of service.

When the shuttle bus dropped me off at the permit lot, I noticed that my lovely 1987 Acura Integra was covered with mud. I couldn't get it to start. I called AAA and had it towed to the nearby Acura dealer.

The next day I got a call from someone important-sounding at the dealership. (I later found out he was the owner.) He got right to the point: "That car's history." WHAT! That car was just over two years old, low mileage, excellent shape, and no insurance company is going to total it! I had once before talked an insurance company out of totalling a car that had been hit while it was parked. I thought I could talk one out of totalling this one, too. I was about two weeks from becoming unemployed, from a family that ONLY buys new cars (and STILL only buys new cars).

But the guy from the dealership explained that my car had been flooded, and cars that have been flooded, with all of the electrical parts they had even in the 1980s, just can't be fixed. If it did get fixed, my car title would be changed to show that it had once been a flooded car.

Now, I work in the auto insurance field, and I understand this stuff better. I eventually got a brand new car, a 1990 Acura Integra, which I bought for cash - nearly all of my savings - later that summer that I only gave up for a 1998 Acura Integra in order to get a CD player and anti-lock brakes. I eventually got a job in late October that took me into the new millennium - no not the one I drove a replacement rental car to interview at on my birthday in 1989 but one that was a short drive from my home.

Just before the statute of limitations expired a few years later, I wrote to SEPTA to see about getting some compensation for my loss. Of course, it was turned down. I was in a better financial situation then, so I didn't explore this too much. It was really time to put this behind me.

Bethayres is one that frequently floods to, from what I've heard. They've since put in disclaimer signs about that lot being flood prone. PATCO put up flood advisories at all stations starting a day or so prior to Irene's landfall.

When SEPTA went out of service, and Amtrak before them, I thought it was to avoid another Floyd situation (passengers saved via boat on the R6 Norristown train), or the busses breaking down such as that flashy blizzard we had several months ago. This time, no passengers came into harm's way, but the equipment was never tended to properly. Have we cut personnel to the point that it's ending up costing us in diesel rescues, repairs, and overtime? And perhaps new parts and totalled trains? It's totally a shame. We should expect and demand better from our public service with our tax dollars and fares.

Amtrak7 wrote:Does SEPTA use a dedicated/different platform at TRE? As they're starting to provide shuttle buses tomorrow and find it odd that Amtrak has the corridor open and they can't run trains.

It's not necessarily the platform: it's the switches. It may be the case that some switches are still unavailable, limiting the capacity to reverse trains at the station. In that case, they may have decided to triage NJT service over SEPTA's.

Launcher wrote:Bethayres is one that frequently floods to, from what I've heard. They've since put in disclaimer signs about that lot being flood prone. PATCO put up flood advisories at all stations starting a day or so prior to Irene's landfall.

I think some of those flood signs (like at Ferry Ave) are permanent.

When SEPTA went out of service, and Amtrak before them, I thought it was to avoid another Floyd situation (passengers saved via boat on the R6 Norristown train), or the busses breaking down such as that flashy blizzard we had several months ago.

I can't speak for Amtrak, but remember their railroad extends down to Washington, and they got hit 10 hours or so before we did. Also, their power supply is pretty fragile (speaking of the converters and substations, not necessarily the wires), and falling trees/wires down can cause complications elsewhere on the system. So they shut down well in advance of the high winds reaching their territory.

As for SEPTA, they ran the parts of the system not dependent on Amtrak power up until midnight, and started back up Sunday afternoon. With the prospect of heavy rain (washouts, mudslides) as well as 50 mph winds, it was the prudent thing to do. As it turns out, we really were spared the worst of it, and SEPTA got back running sooner than any other NE railroad.

Have we cut personnel to the point that it's ending up costing us in diesel rescues, repairs, and overtime?

No. The headcount and changes in staffing are the first things I look at when a new SEPTA budget comes out, and none of the reductions in the last decade or so would have affected that.

Shuttle buses Levittown-Trenton tomorrow.

KAWASAKI-FAN100 wrote:

Amtrak7 wrote:NJT is back at Trenton, with 30-45 min delays. SEPTA is still turning at Levittown. Why?

The 2 Septa train sets are still at Trenton with flood damage. One is at the platform and for service to resume at Trenton the set has to be removed from the platform. (May not be that case no more regarding if the sets were removed already)

And doesn't SEPTA keep 3 sets at Trenton overnight? I remember riding a NJT train to Hamilton back a while ago and saw another set of IV's sitting further down the track from the push & pull set. Was that IV set on the platform supposed to be moved farther past the push pull for overnight storage or was it regular procedures?

IIRC, the SEPTA car count SHOULD be
The Bomber set
2 Silverliner IV sets on Track 5 at Trenton
1 Silverliner IV set in the pocket on Track 5 at Ham.

I honestly believe they could have evacuated that equipment well in advance of Irene, even hours before Amtrak shut things down, even if it would have meant suspending Trenton service a couple hours earlier. "Minimal damage" my foot!!! That stuff is going to be out of service for weeks... that's no quick fix!

Just some examples on what COULD have been done:

The Bomber set parked there for the weekend on Friday. A report crew or an extra crew could have deadheaded that set to the Northbound Layoff at Jenkintown or the Glenside Layoff and parked it there to wait out the storm.

There is normally a 4-car Silverliner set that spends overnights and weekends parked on #5 Track in the pocket at Ham interlocking. On Saturday, a report crew or extra crew could have ridden the last operating trains up to Trenton, coupled up the two trains parked on #5 track at the station, then gone out to Ham with those cars, coupled to the Silverliners out there, and then brought all 9 or 10 cars back into Philly. Where to park them? Stick them on either Track 1 or 4 at Suburban Station, since the 0 and 5 to 7 would be full already. It's a WEEKEND... SEPTA could have gotten along just fine with only one track open each way between 20th Street and Vine!!! And likewise with the Bomber set above; if they didn't want to leave it on the Layoffs at either Jenkintown or Glenside, then park them on Track 1 or 4 at Suburban Station, and all through traffic just use Tracks 2 and 3 for the weekend!

The point being... they had from Friday night to move the Bombers and they still had a couple hours Saturday afternoon to move those Silverliners out of Trenton. If they needed to shut down service to Trenton earlier, then they should have. As of now, while NJT has restored service to Trenton, critical switches at Fair are possibly still out, and SEPTA will begin shuttle busing Levittown to Trenton until further notice. And they are now short one push pull trainset and at least 10 Silverliner IV's, thanks to water damage.

Now, let's think worst possible scenario:
All the underfloor electrical equipment on the MU's and AEM-7 will have to be dried out, then inspected for damage, and possibly will have to be replaced. On all the equipment (including the Bomber cars), battery equipment will have to be repaired or replaced. The air brake systems would need inspection. And I don't recall the rule involving wheel bearings that have been submerged in water, but worst possibility there would be every wheel on all the cars would have to be replaced as well. None of that equipment is going to be back in service again anytime soon if the absolute worst case scenario of needed repairs arise.

FOX 29 apparently is running an investigative report on the very question of why that equipment was left at Trenton. Wonder what SEPTA will have to say.....

Ending my incomprehensible rant now. But that has been bugging me since Sunday evening....

BTW: West Trenton trains still delayed due to the signals being out between Trent and Wood. I recrewed a train there Tuesday night and signal cable was downed by fallen trees between Yardley station and Edgewood Road. All signals were red between Wood and Trent except for the automatics at Yardley (eastbound), and Edgewood Road (both ways) which were dark. Crossing protection at Edgewood Road was not working either and had to be flagged. Things may not have improved much since 15-20 minute delays were still going on up there today.

There isn't any push-pull equipment out there that SEPTA can lease on a short-term basis? If so, swap it out with the Bomber set that spends nights and weekends in West Trenton. The first sets I'm thinking of are any NJT cars that have been returned from AMT service or MAFERSA cars from ConnDOT.

As for the 10 MUs, gonna have to keep some Budds and Louies around a bit longer.