The Maine Central Railroad Mountain Division

Here's an idea: instead of stopping the spraying, just close the trail. People and pets won't have their health endangered by herbicides or anything else if they stay well away from the right-of-way, will they? Then MDOT can bring in the brush cutter to control vegetation, and they can all [rhymes with TWITCH] about that.

Regarding something Cosmo mentioned earlier: I live in Maine, I pay taxes in Maine, and I vote in Maine. I voted for that and any other bond issues with the word "rail" in the description. I don't work on or along the Mountain Division, so my livelihood isn't dependent on whether it runs again or not. I probably don't even go to that part of the state more than once a year, if that. I don't own a pellet mill. (Heck, I don't even own a chainsaw right now. ) But I'd be quite pleased to see that line up and running again, moving freight or passengers or both.

I don't love the idea of them spraying so close to Sebago Lake, which supplies drinking water for myself and tens of thousands of other people in southern Maine... but I do think it's telling that the Gorham group was given an option ("we'll stop spraying if you do the mowing") and they didn't consider that good enough. They want the trail but they don't want to put any effort into maintaining it, apparently.

From what I've been able to tell, there are two branches off the MD near Sappi: one east of the Presumpscot bridge that curves through the Main St. rotary and joins the old Portland & Rochester / B&M line that largely parallels Warren Ave. to Deering Jct. (discounting where it's cut by the Turnpike), and another west of the bridge that comes in near what used to be Westbrook Hospital and is now a unit of Mercy. Are both of those spurs still in use?

Cosmo wrote:you ignore the fact that the line underwent re-ballasting and some refurbishment in the 1980's under MEC prior to abandonment. The line was well maintained until that point. I've walked that line in places and it's better than "cinders."

First of all, I didn't misquote you, or even quote you, for that matter.

You conclude by inspection that the track's in pretty good nick? Lest my opinion on the track be considered biased, I defer to MDOT's opinion (that is now three years old, and rights-of-way don't improve with age):

About ties: "...tie condition is very poor... On average, about 19% of the ties are in good to fair condition and about 81% are poor to completely failed...At bridge approaches, there are generally no satisfactory ties for 40 to 50 feet or more."

About tie plates: The 5” x 8”, 6” x 8” and 6” x 9 ½” plates should be replaced with larger plates,regardless of the FRA Class of track to be upgraded to.

About bridge timbers: "All of the open deck bridge timbers need to be completely replaced on the Mountain Division between the Mallison Road Bridge (MP 10.32) and the Saco River Bridge in New Hampshire (MP 55.37). That would be 13 bridges with a total length of about 1,226 feet. In addition, the ties on bridge approaches are generally in very poor condition and should be addressed when the bridge decks are replaced."

About ballast: Ballast is generally either gravel, washed gravel or crushed stone... The crushed stone ballast is of varying quality.

About rail: In general terms, the 85 lb rail is generally adequate for operation as FRA Class 1 and possibly 2 ifa good tie condition were achieved. If the Mountain Division were to be operated as FRA Class 3, the 85 lb rail would need to be replaced with newer, heavier 115 RE rail.

About grade crossings: Due to the large number of grade crossings and their overall condition, placing the out of service segments of the Mountain Division back into service will require a large expenditure on crossings.

All is not lost, Cosmo. In your neck of the woods, Gateway Community College in New Haven, Conn., is soon going to be offering degree courses in track inspection and engineering.

Cowford wrote: Gateway Community College in New Haven, Conn., is soon going to be offering degree courses in track inspection and engineering.

That's awesome! I already have a head start on that from working down in the "Cinders" (as you refer to what the DOT calls "gravel, crushed gravel or washed stone") on two different lines.
I still don't see from what you quoted any reference to cinders. I don't dispute that a lot of ties will need replacing, that's a given. The bridge redecking? Yeah, that's pretty much a given too. Thing of it is, whoever does thee work can bring in their own equipment via rail and do the work from the rail that's already there.
But ok, hey, y'know what? Next time I'm up in Maine (which, I suspect, will be much sooner than you will,) I'll just take a swing through Westbrook and maybe even further up the line to see for myself.
As I said, I can pretty much guarantee it's in way better shape than the old Valley Line through Haddam.

Man, I said cinders/gravel. I haven't seen the line "live" since 1982... I'd imagine most of the rock ballast is focused at grade crossings and some curves.

And Cosmo... I get to Maine more often than you may think... I just don't announce it as I think you guys may offer up a bounty!

NRGeep wrote:As for railroads offering lower rates than truckers? The free market says, why not?!!

The market may say, "why not?" but the the railroad pricing guy may not have the same liberty. Railroad costs are not automatically lower than truck costs.

Cowford wrote:About bridge timbers: "All of the open deck bridge timbers need to be completely replaced on the Mountain Division between the Mallison Road Bridge (MP 10.32) and the Saco River Bridge in New Hampshire (MP 55.37). That would be 13 bridges with a total length of about 1,226 feet. In addition, the ties on bridge approaches are generally in very poor condition and should be addressed when the bridge decks are replaced."

Let's leave the NH portion out if it as it has nothing to do with the Portland to Fryeburg segment. Anything done in NH will be at NHDOT expense not Maine's and currently NHDOT has no plans other than the continued maintenance funding of the Conway Scenic portion.

Steady on there... don't shoot the messenger. As you'll note, it's a quote from a MDOT document. It was never suggested that ME would pay for such repairs, but to your point- Why don't you ask them why they paid to inspect and run engineering estimates on out-of-state trackage.

Cowford wrote:Why don't you ask them why they paid to inspect and run engineering estimates on out-of-state trackage.

Maybe they used data from NHDOT, or maybe they got a package deal: Inspect and get estimates on the whole route for the price of inspecting just the Maine section. After all, they were probably hoping that traffic wouldn't just dead-end at the state line.
But I might know somebody I can ask about that.

markhb wrote:From what I've been able to tell, there are two branches off the MD near Sappi: one east of the Presumpscot bridge that curves through the Main St. rotary and joins the old Portland & Rochester / B&M line that largely parallels Warren Ave. to Deering Jct. (discounting where it's cut by the Turnpike), and another west of the bridge that comes in near what used to be Westbrook Hospital and is now a unit of Mercy. Are both of those spurs still in use?

No. The Northern most track near where the hospital used to be is the only one to see active (Very sporadic at best) use.

Mike

Most of the trackage resides on gravel ballast. There are a few locations that did get improved by the MEC when they did the NH portion of their line back in the mid to late 70's. The Stae of NH either forced them to do it or gave them an incentive to ballast, which worked out in the States favor when they purchased the line.

If I had to venture a guess, I would say 805 of the State of Maine owned trackage is Gravel Ballasted. It was never upgraded with rock ballast. This, as you may imagine, has accelerated the rot on the ties. That is why the 2007 survey gave them such a poor rating.

Many of the ties were installed in the 50's and 60's, according to the date nails they used. Some crossings were upgraded, which is where some of the ballast was used. I have some pictures saved on a disc someplace taken a few years ago. I'll dig them up and post them so the actual conditions can be seen.

Mike

These photos were taken December 2006.
Located around MP 35, I took these series of shots. Starting looking Railroad west at MP35



A Granite alignment post or survey post can be seen between the rails.



Now Looking back East at MP 35. These are all pictures of wheel slip. The little grade was quite troublesome for a single unit one day. Quite an incline from the land fill road crossing.







And around MP 36, Looking west, Bridgton Junction used to be here. This is one of the areas with the stone ballast.



Looking East towards Bridgton Junction




Mike

For those anticipating an imminent Mountain rebirth, I'd strongly suggest review of the MDOT bid package (the link of which was posted a few weeks ago). It's gotta be one of the more bizarre track construction projects on the books today. The ties specified: 6"x8"... the size specified for industry tracks and sidings. Hmmm. And the line's going to get 115 RE rail. Ok... even if half of it has to be dragged in quarter-mile strings from Westbrook (where it's sitting on the ground). The remainder has to be trucked in, along with the ties and ballast. Oh Cowford, you always seem so anti-rail. Why not rail it in? Well, I'm glad you asked. Over the 4.75 miles of line, there are six paved-over grade crossings and a bridge needing to be rebuilt. Those aren't part of the bid. (To quote the bid: "these gaps will be closed at a future date.") Given that, the contractor will be prevented from laying track within 50' of all paved crossings. So they'll have to lay seven isolated sections of track, adding just a smidge of complication to moving tampers, regulators, and particularly ballast dump trains!

I've got a soft spot in my heart for Maine humor. This takes the cake.

Peace meal Cowford. That way it costs so much more in the long run. And wait until all those residents along the ROW start seeing track related materials show up. Government waste at it's finest.

And once again, why not relay some of the Lower Road rail here? Pan Am got free rail, what 20 miles worth? They can give up 5 miles of relay rail. Then, if things take off, lay out the 115 CWR. Don't put it out firts and hope that it will work out.

Mike

Jesus Christ, I stop checking the Mtn Div thread for one week and the market fundamentalists start patting each other on the back like they own the place!
But hey, don't let me stop you guys. Maybe I'll just jump on the bandwagon.

Boy, that government sure is stupid. Just look at all that money they're wasting on public infrastructure when it's obvious that the only answer is to let the market run it's course and depopulate Maine through rampant sustained unemployment while the rest of the country gets back on it's feet. Maybe we can finally realize the dream of making Maine one big National Park once everybody either dies off or moves away in the next decade. Oh, wait... Never mind... That would be a waste of taxpayer money too... Oh well. Back to the point. Market good, government bad. If the market decides the area should be a wasteland than that's just how it's gonna be. Too bad the folks that actually live there don't know it yet...