Downeaster Trackwork & Upgrades

pinwizard1971 wrote:I shot video of CWR being offloaded at Blackstrap Road in Portland yesterday. It's a fascinating process! I chatted a bit with some of the Pan Am workers as well as a railroad police officer, the first I had ever encountered. All were very friendly and happy to talk about the whole process. Hit the link for the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt1cHKOxrQc

Thanks for posting the video. Pretty interesting how they lay the rail next to the track. It does seem like quite the process of every grade crossing they get to they have the cut the rails. I also didn't realize how long the rail train was.

Does anyone know how far west/south they have dropped off the CWR and also how far west/south they have actually installed the CWR? Thanks!

roberttosh wrote:Does anyone know how far west/south they have dropped off the CWR and also how far west/south they have actually installed the CWR? Thanks!

Although I haven't actually gone down there to look, my impression is that after last week's escapades they have dropped off all the CWR, clear to the Mountain Division junction. I'm not sure how much has actually been installed, though; that may also tie into the square-nuts issue still pending in Washington.

On the topic of the Mountain Division junction (does it have a name?), I have a question for those who know the rails better than I. Here is the junction, roughly (I think) behind the Sid Harvey building on St. John St. and pinned between the county jail and the new Mercy Hospital. If they wanted to, would there be enough room there to build a wye between the MD and the northbound mainline, or would the curve have to be too sharp with the jail in the way? I'm assuming that any space that is cleared is behind the razor wire, so it would have to stick roughly to the edge of that patch of woods.

markhb wrote:On the topic of the Mountain Division junction (does it have a name?)...

Mountain Junction. Aptly named, I'm sure you'd agree.

Mark,

I've looked at the area before when I was trying to understand which 'wye' was going to be restored. My impression was that the legal RoW is intact, hence the curve on the southeast side of the Country property. Although any track would certainly be speed limited to "Restricted Speed" or something like that it certainly appears to me (and my untrained, non-engineer, non R.R. employee) eyes as still feasible.

This issue is part of the whole 'reverse-move' problem associated with the northbound service to Brunswick. The solution to the problem is so simple as to be farcical. Meaning in my opinion that the funds for exactly the project you describe will get attached as a buried line item in the next transportation bond. Frankly, I'm all for it. The timing of such a project might give NNEPRA a small PR 'boost' from the subsequent time keeping improvement.

There is also one other possible answer to this issue. Although the installation of a swtich and track may be a relatively simple answer there is a whole host of other problems that might inflate costs on this project substantially. Possible to the extent that NNEPRA did not want to include it as part of their original grant proposal for the Brunswick extension. Instead they choose to exclude this one item to be pursued as a separate project later. Here are some of the specific issues that I can see with this area.

1) You may have to do a fairly substantial environmental review as the previous grading and track structures are gone. There is also some drainage in the area as well as some relatively young tree growth

2) By PAR standards there are a LOT of signal issues in play. There are CTC signal circuits for downtown Portland including the crossings, swtiches and signals.

I think NNEPRAs approach at this time is to a) avoid this problem and the associated politics of that expenditure and b) push hard for a new station somewhere towards the west end of Commerical Street. It's a fairly reasonable mindset when you look at it. Especially if they are interested in the 'leisure' travel market.

I think NNEPRAs approach at this time is to a) avoid this problem and the associated politics of that expenditure and b) push hard for a new station somewhere towards the west end of Commerical Street. It's a fairly reasonable mindset when you look at it. Especially if they are interested in the 'leisure' travel market.


gokeefe

Posts: 866
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

This is pretty much what the NNEPRA rep told me when I asked him at the Brunswick ceremony. Building a new wye is an option, but for the reasons stated above it might actually be easier to build an entirely new station than to deal with new crossings, EIS's, drainage etc... If you look at their "Yard 8 Wye" project, it was certainly constructed with future service to and from Commercial Street in mind.

4266,

So let's draw out this analysis just a little further.

Once the Brunswick extension work is complete which option then becomes the priority, extension to Auburn, with new service and a certain requirement for contract modification with Amtrak (higher operating subsidy) or construction of a new Portland station on the existing service with major savings on operating costs (no more rental fees to pay for space at PTC)?

My answer is (b). They'll build a new station in downtown Portland and 'relaunch' the Downeaster with a new effort towards leisure travel and cruise ship passengers. They'll still work hard to maintain the current market of commuters and occasional travelers as a base. This will delay any increase in operating subsidies, and potentially allow an improvement in farebox recovery from additional passengers using the service. Many of whom might come from cruise ships at the new 'Ocean Berth'.

MEC407 wrote:

markhb wrote:On the topic of the Mountain Division junction (does it have a name?)...

Mountain Junction. Aptly named, I'm sure you'd agree.

Thanks; I was tempted to call it that just because it seems so obvious, but then decided that I'd ask to see if it had a real name.

gokeefe wrote:Once the Brunswick extension work is complete which option then becomes the priority, extension to Auburn, with new service and a certain requirement for contract modification with Amtrak (higher operating subsidy) or construction of a new Portland station on the existing service with major savings on operating costs (no more rental fees to pay for space at PTC)?

My answer is (b). They'll build a new station in downtown Portland and 'relaunch' the Downeaster with a new effort towards leisure travel and cruise ship passengers. They'll still work hard to maintain the current market of commuters and occasional travelers as a base. This will delay any increase in operating subsidies, and potentially allow an improvement in farebox recovery from additional passengers using the service. Many of whom might come from cruise ships at the new 'Ocean Berth'.

Thanks for the feedback. I've heard (maybe on this board) talk of a Commercial St. station, but I wonder about where they could put it; the easy places are west of the Casco Bay Bridge, but that doesn't really solve the "not really in a nice area or close to downtown" dilemma. I've been thinking about putting a post going over ideas for a Portland station in your Portland thread in NE Railfan, but I haven't gotten to it yet. Is there any documentation online regarding the "Yard 8 Wye" project?

Mark,

There is some but really not much. It was a $500,000 FRA grant that has now been completed. Frankly there has almost been more news about completion of the project than there was about it when it was underway. For the moment NNEPRA doesn't seem to be interested in engaging in a high profile campaign about their intention/desire to build a station on the west end of Commercial Street. More than likely they don't want to agitate the neighborhood until they're ready to execute the project.

Here's a link to the original announcement by the FRA.
http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/Resear ... sFinal.pdf

The following search string in Google also yields some nice results: [nnepra $500,000 fra grant wye]

Any and all trackwork upgrades and the existence of Amtrak itself
will be very uncertain at best after the polls close this evening.

The All Aboard group has a list of proposed budget cuts by the
soon to be House of Representatives leadership, starting in
January and the cuts would be from the current operating budget.
They are proposing $100 billion in cuts and Amtak gets hit with
a $1.9 billion cut, which will essentially put it out of business,
other than the NEC, if that.

In addition, while I may have missed it, I have been unable to
find what the position is of the new likely Governor in Augusta.
As I said above, uncertainty or worse will be the name of the
game in coming months...

Ride the Downeaster and get those photos, while you can. He
who hesitates is lost...

Dick H wrote:Any and all trackwork upgrades and the existence of Amtrak itself
will be very uncertain at best after the polls close this evening.

The All Aboard group has a list of proposed budget cuts by the
soon to be House of Representatives leadership, starting in
January and the cuts would be from the current operating budget.
They are proposing $100 billion in cuts and Amtak gets hit with
a $1.9 billion cut, which will essentially put it out of business,
other than the NEC, if that.

In addition, while I may have missed it, I have been unable to
find what the position is of the new likely Governor in Augusta.
As I said above, uncertainty or worse will be the name of the
game in coming months...

Ride the Downeaster and get those photos, while you can. He
who hesitates is lost...

While I can't speak for anything on the federal level, thus far comments from our "likely future governor" have actually demonstrated more general support for rail than the independent candidate, Cutler. Who has been outright hostile. In a forum on transportation recently the candidates ranked their priorities and Lepage ranked rail last but said he would continue to support rail development. There was a caveat when he said he would "take the money back from 'feel good non-profit groups' and give it to the DOT"... Which was a typically confusing politician message... What did he mean by 'feel good non profits"? NNEPRA? TRNE? So far as I've seen the DOT has been just as supportive of rail, but maybe he intends to change all that... In any case, nobody really stood out from the pack as either for or against rail spending.

The only article that hints at the candidates' attitudes towards rail (that I can find)-
http://dailyme.com/story/20101013000040 ... ation.html

I wouldn't read into the new governor yet, all these candidates all promise the same things, better jobs, better health care and lower taxes. They also say how awful the opponent(s) is/are, but none of them actually tell you how they plan to reach solutions to these difficult problems. What you read now at the peak of political season will fall off the radar after inauguration.

All we know now is that the outgoing administration has inarguably been very friendly towards the railroads, even through this sagging economy. One thing we can all hope for is that the incoming will be equally friendly, but that really remains to be seen, and certainly cannot be judged on campaign statements.

I don't thing that PAR pulling out the sisters and the associated business cars and giving the new governor a ride could possibly hurt the situation, and I would not be surprised to see this, maybe even before inauguration.

But that's just my $0.02.

It also didn't hurt that the Maine Eastern supplied the now-Governor Lepage with a "Lepage Express" early in the campaign. I can't help but to wonder if this had anything to do with his whole "passenger rail can work if coupled with tourism" musing.

Dick H wrote:Any and all trackwork upgrades and the existence of Amtrak itself
will be very uncertain at best after the polls close this evening.

The All Aboard group has a list of proposed budget cuts by the
soon to be House of Representatives leadership, starting in
January and the cuts would be from the current operating budget.
They are proposing $100 billion in cuts and Amtak gets hit with
a $1.9 billion cut, which will essentially put it out of business,
other than the NEC, if that.

In addition, while I may have missed it, I have been unable to
find what the position is of the new likely Governor in Augusta.
As I said above, uncertainty or worse will be the name of the
game in coming months...

Ride the Downeaster and get those photos, while you can. He
who hesitates is lost...

I'm not as worried as I was 4 years ago. Amtrak has been showing year after year of growth and with the newly elected running on a campaign about jobs and economy, they would be hard pressed to put thousands of people out of a job.

Of course, nothing surprises me anymore.