CIT Group has a large rail equipment leasing arm. However, I can't recall seeing that many (if any) cars carrying reporting marks for CIT (CITX?), or locomotives in CIT paint. Is most leased equipment painted into the colors of the leasing road and given the reporting marks for that road-- UP or whatever? Or am I just not looking close enough?
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Leased Railcars & Locomotives
- General discussion about locomotives, rolling stock, and equipment
Moderator: John_Perkowski
Look for both CITX and CEFX. Both are CIT Group reporting marks.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???
Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
CIT Group Rail website
CIT is trying to dispose of its rail and aircraft leasing units ... Read it here (Fresh as of July 28) or here.
The market, sensing CIT may be near Chapter 11, is trying to get fire sale prices on the assets.
CIT is trying to dispose of its rail and aircraft leasing units ... Read it here (Fresh as of July 28) or here.
The market, sensing CIT may be near Chapter 11, is trying to get fire sale prices on the assets.
~John Perkowski: Moderator: General Discussion: Locomotives, Rolling Stock, and Equipment
Assistant Administrator: Railroad.net/forums
Jeff Smith & Greg Primrose now own railroad.net!
Assistant Administrator: Railroad.net/forums
Jeff Smith & Greg Primrose now own railroad.net!
John_Perkowski wrote:CIT Group Rail websiteYeah, I'm unfortunately familiar with the CIT situation-- that's what prompted this train of thought.
CIT is trying to dispose of its rail and aircraft leasing units ... Read it here (Fresh as of July 28) or here.
The market, sensing CIT may be near Chapter 11, is trying to get fire sale prices on the assets.
So, in general, does all leased equipment-- not just CITs-- carry the leasing company's reporting marks, or is equipment ever let to railroads on long-term lease and given their paint scheme and reporting marks (as happens with leased aircraft)?
I've seen UP equipment with the owners reporting marks and road numbers. I don't know if it was stuff the new owner had bought from UP or not. I HAVE seen ex-UP equipment where UP is simply lined out on the body, and then reporting marks and number are on the cab of the new owner.
BN, just before the BNSF merger, used to have lots of leased power. I saw a lot of stuff under an EMD paintjob, with a road number and "Leased to Oakway Inc) on the cab flanks, but I never saw reporting marks. There was also a time where if the paint scheme was green with safety striping, that indicated BN owned the unit, but if the paint scheme was green with white cab doors and a big BN on the nose/tail, it was leased to BN.
I don't think there's a common standard, I think you have to look at each road.
BN, just before the BNSF merger, used to have lots of leased power. I saw a lot of stuff under an EMD paintjob, with a road number and "Leased to Oakway Inc) on the cab flanks, but I never saw reporting marks. There was also a time where if the paint scheme was green with safety striping, that indicated BN owned the unit, but if the paint scheme was green with white cab doors and a big BN on the nose/tail, it was leased to BN.
I don't think there's a common standard, I think you have to look at each road.
~John Perkowski: Moderator: General Discussion: Locomotives, Rolling Stock, and Equipment
Assistant Administrator: Railroad.net/forums
Jeff Smith & Greg Primrose now own railroad.net!
Assistant Administrator: Railroad.net/forums
Jeff Smith & Greg Primrose now own railroad.net!
I believe that practically all locomotives these days are leased from the manufacturer, at least initially.
Fan of late and early Conrail... also transition-era PRR, 70s Santa Fe, BN and SP, 70s-80s eastern CN, pre-merger-era UP, heavy electric operations in general, dieselized narrow gauge, transition-era DB and DR, modern EFVM and Brazilian railroads in general... why bother trying to list them all?
There are different kinds of leases and it depends on the lease if the locomotive is repainted into the railroad's paint scheme. Here's how I understand it. I welcome corrections.
First, there is the long term lease of new locomotives through a finiancial institution. This is similar to the way you or I would lease an automobile. The railroad leases the locomotives for a period of time, such as 15 years. At that point, the railroad can either buy the locomotive or return it to the owner, who can then sell or lease it to someone else (sometimes the original railroad). During the initial lease, these locomotives are almost always painted and numbered for the railroad, and seem to be owned by the railroad (just like you would seem to be the owner of a leased car) even though they technically aren't. Sometimes older locomotives that are rebuilt and recapitalized as new are leased like this as well.
Used locomotives are often leased under shorter-term leases. These leases can be of any duration, from months to years. Depending on the length and terms of the lease, they may be painted for the company that owns them, or for longer leases they may be painted for the railroad. Occasionally the locomotive will be fully painted for the railroad, but will have the reporting marks of the leasing company in small lettering near the number. If neither the leasing company nor the new railroad cares enough to paint the locomotive, it can remain in the colors of its previous operator, often, but not always, with the old roadname painted out. Sometimes a railroad will end up with a short-term lease on a locomotive it previously retired, and I think this is occasionally arranged ahead of time. Rebuilt locomotives can also fall under these leases. Many short lines have locomotives under these types of leases.
There are also "power-by-the-hour" arrangements. The Oakway SD60s and LMX B39-8s were originally examples of these. I'm not entirely sure how it worked, but I think in the case of the SD60s they were owned by EMD and leased to Oakway. Burlington Northern then paid Oakway for the use of the locomotives, but only when they were actually using them on a train. The LMX units on BN were in a similar arrangement with GE. The LMXs were sold off. Oakways are still occasionally seen on BNSF, but I don't know if the arrangement is the same. In this type of arrangement, the locomotives are typically painted in their owner's colors, not the railroad's.
As for the BN "whiteface" scheme, It was just a change to the cascade green scheme to make it more visible. I don't think it ever officially meant that a locomotive was leased, although at the time it was introduced, BN did receive a large number of rebuilt 4-axle EMDs under various lease agreements, so maybe that's why you thought that, John. Once the scheme was introduced, it was applied to any locomotive that was due for repainting, and BN repainted a lot of locomotives that they owned outright into the "whiteface" scheme. Naturally, the repainting took time, and there were many yet to be done when the BNSF merger occured.
First, there is the long term lease of new locomotives through a finiancial institution. This is similar to the way you or I would lease an automobile. The railroad leases the locomotives for a period of time, such as 15 years. At that point, the railroad can either buy the locomotive or return it to the owner, who can then sell or lease it to someone else (sometimes the original railroad). During the initial lease, these locomotives are almost always painted and numbered for the railroad, and seem to be owned by the railroad (just like you would seem to be the owner of a leased car) even though they technically aren't. Sometimes older locomotives that are rebuilt and recapitalized as new are leased like this as well.
Used locomotives are often leased under shorter-term leases. These leases can be of any duration, from months to years. Depending on the length and terms of the lease, they may be painted for the company that owns them, or for longer leases they may be painted for the railroad. Occasionally the locomotive will be fully painted for the railroad, but will have the reporting marks of the leasing company in small lettering near the number. If neither the leasing company nor the new railroad cares enough to paint the locomotive, it can remain in the colors of its previous operator, often, but not always, with the old roadname painted out. Sometimes a railroad will end up with a short-term lease on a locomotive it previously retired, and I think this is occasionally arranged ahead of time. Rebuilt locomotives can also fall under these leases. Many short lines have locomotives under these types of leases.
There are also "power-by-the-hour" arrangements. The Oakway SD60s and LMX B39-8s were originally examples of these. I'm not entirely sure how it worked, but I think in the case of the SD60s they were owned by EMD and leased to Oakway. Burlington Northern then paid Oakway for the use of the locomotives, but only when they were actually using them on a train. The LMX units on BN were in a similar arrangement with GE. The LMXs were sold off. Oakways are still occasionally seen on BNSF, but I don't know if the arrangement is the same. In this type of arrangement, the locomotives are typically painted in their owner's colors, not the railroad's.
As for the BN "whiteface" scheme, It was just a change to the cascade green scheme to make it more visible. I don't think it ever officially meant that a locomotive was leased, although at the time it was introduced, BN did receive a large number of rebuilt 4-axle EMDs under various lease agreements, so maybe that's why you thought that, John. Once the scheme was introduced, it was applied to any locomotive that was due for repainting, and BN repainted a lot of locomotives that they owned outright into the "whiteface" scheme. Naturally, the repainting took time, and there were many yet to be done when the BNSF merger occured.
Indiana Railroad SD9043MACS are leased units but in the RR paint. I believe these are CIT leasers.