All Things Empire Builder

They don't need to.

Summer is the peak travel season on the long-distance trains. The Builder in particular. You might call it climate change tourism ("See the glaciers before they melt!") -- e.g. Glacier National Park enroute, or connection to Alaska cruise ship from Seattle.

I've been considering a trip on the Builder, but I guess I might have to plan it well in advance if I want to reserve sleeper space! Does the Empire Builder sell revenue space in the transition sleeper? Not including the transition crew sleeper, how many sleeping cars are typically on the train? Two for the Seattle section and one for the Portland section?

Rooms 17-20 are sold as revenue rooms in the crew car.
During off-peak season, there is only one sleeper each in SEA and PDX sections. During peak season, an additional sleeper is added to the SEA section.

On an only tangentially related note: must have been because of the holiday today, but #7/27 was quite near capacity today CHI-MSP. Naturally this is the busiest section of the route, but it was unusually busy for a Monday in February. There were a few empty rooms in the rear sleeper though.

Is the Empire Builder really in "off peak season?" Empire Builder is pretty popular even here in February.

Try booking a sleeper eastbound this coming weekend! Just after the re-launch the Empire Builder kept its second Seattle sleeper even in the winter. Then it reverted back to its original consist of one Seattle sleeper in the winter time.

On weekends sleepers on the Empire Builder are often a challenge to book on the Seattle section, largely to/from Glacier National Park I presume.

One would think Amtrak may even want to consider adding an additional sleeper perhaps Friday through Sunday - perhaps from the sleepers of the Coast Starlight train set that is "trapped" in the Pacific Northwest! Are Superliner Trans/Dorm revenue sleeper space sold year-round on the Empire Builder - as what should likely be considered!

jp1822 wrote:Is the Empire Builder really in "off peak season?" Empire Builder is pretty popular even here in February.

Well, relatively, anyhow. It is a lot busier in the summer and during the holidays.

On weekends sleepers on the Empire Builder are often a challenge to book on the Seattle section, largely to/from Glacier National Park I presume.

Lately, it's not Glacier or Whitefish in particular, it's pretty much all over the map. About half the rooms go the endpoint, and the rest go to other odd places. Anyhow, like I said, the Portland sleeper has rarely been sold out like the Seattle sleeper has been, so anyone going someplace east of SPK can still get a room. Many people get in the sleepers at MSP, so this can make it difficult to get a room all the way through from Chicago to wherever.

One would think Amtrak may even want to consider adding an additional sleeper perhaps Friday through Sunday - perhaps from the sleepers of the Coast Starlight train set that is "trapped" in the Pacific Northwest! Are Superliner Trans/Dorm revenue sleeper space sold year-round on the Empire Builder - as what should likely be considered!

I have to think that the recent spark of ridership in the sleepers is, in and of itself, related to the 11/14 annulment. Like I said, the front sleeper is usually pretty full lately, perhaps to the point where a 731 car would be potentially useful. But, it wasn't always like this.

Also, dorm car space is already being sold year round.

According to the New amtrak timetable which I recived today, the empire builder will be using a diner lounge car this summer. The timetable still shows the use of the normal diner and lounge car, so does this mean that the empire builder will run with all three of those cars this summer, or is a car being cut?

This comes as news to me, and I work this train. Hopefully it's a mistake. The current configuration is ideal.

It says a combined Diner/Lounge under the Sightseer Lounge comment for this train and for passenger between Spokane and Seattle, so I presume this is still the normal consist, as the Seattle section gets the diner and the Portland section gets the Sightseer Lounge Car, which provides meal/cafe service in the absence of a diner (sleeping car passengers get a special boxed dinner for example).

Mr EricL,

Please keep us informed about this after the new TT takes effect!! (perhaps though).

Well my $.02 is that if they keep the sightseer lounge with the Seattle Section and the Diner/Lounge with the Portland section this would be even more ideal. It improves service on both trains, thought is costs the Portland Section a Sightseer, it gains the Seattle section a sightseer and I think more people go to Seattle than Portland, so this seems to make sense. I also would hope that the diner lounge would mean improved food service on the Portland Section. Not that the premade meals are bad, the breakfast I had in March was very good, but I had a choice of ham and cheese or ham and cheese or for something different ham and cheese. On a side note the breakfast cobbler was fantastic. Hopefully the D/L will offer superior meal selections for Portland bound passengers and lets face it, most people I think will care about a good meal more than a good view. Now the question is can a D/L provide such a meal?
Cheers,
Nick

As Eric mentioned this would be news to me, as Well.. the Diner goes to Seattle, the Lounge goes to Portland. Between Spokane and Seattle 1/2 of the diner serves as the "lounge car"

I would be willing to bet my life saveings that they will not run one of the diner/lounges like of the City of New Orleans and the Texas Eagle. The Lounge will continue to go to Portland and the Diner to Seattle.

If they were to put a diner lounge on the train then you would loose the lounge cafe entirely. one other reason ( an i am not trying to start an argument here) that the lounge goes to Portland is that the Columbia River Gorge is considered "more scenic" and better served by the large windows of the Lounge then Stevens Pass, again this is not to start an argument, i am just repeating what i am told)

As for the comment about more people going to Seattle then Portland.. Many times there are more Portland passengers on the train out of Chicago then Seattle passengers, but often times the numbers actually detraining at Seattle and Portland are very close

I believe that what's being referred to is just a clumsy way of indicating that the dining car, serves a dual role as diner AND lounge between Spokane and Seattle. I don't think AMTRAK wants to add to the switching procedure at Spokane by shuttling (Two needed) of the new Diner/Lounge's between Seattle and Spokane.

Hopefully you're right, Mr. S.G.

My main concern about implementing a Diner-Lounge is that there would absolutely not be enough capacity on the Diner side. Of course, we currently run a conventional diner with a "full staff" (or at least as close as any train on the system comes), and let me tell you, those folks are in there earning their money, on most days.

FWIW, none of the people I work with - OBS, operating, or otherwise - have said anything about a Diner Lounge. I'd think that if anyone knew anything about it, not a day would pass that I wouldn't hear a bunch of derisive remarks on the matter.

To hopefully put this to rest - the current timetable has the same language in at as the May 12th timetable regarding this Sightseer Lounge and Diner/Lounge issue for the Empire Builder, discussed on this forum. So I don't think the Empire Builder is getting any Diner/Lounge car. The Sightseer Lounge, as we've known it since inception so to speak, doubles as a diner and lounge car between Spokane and Porland, as the full diner goes to the Spokane-Seattle section of this train.

What I don't get, is why they don't try operating a diner/lounge on the Vancouver, BC - Seattle train (serving dinner or breakfast as it did with a Talgo train set). I mention this as a related topic to the extent that both the Empire Builder and the Amtrak Cascade trains serve the Pacific Northwest. Also the May 12th timetable does mention that a "substitute" train set will continue to fill in for a Talgo train set operating between Vancouver, BC and Seattle - which we all know has been a Superliner train - often using the original 37000 Superliner Diner/Lounge prototype.

ngotwalt wrote:Well my $.02 is that if they keep the sightseer lounge with the Seattle Section and the Diner/Lounge with the Portland section this would be even more ideal. It improves service on both trains, thought is costs the Portland Section a Sightseer, it gains the Seattle section a sightseer

I have to agree. The one annoyance of mine (especially if I am a Sleeper passenger) is the complete lack of meal service on the Portland section, despite the fact that the train leaves Portland eastbound at 4:45 PM (which means you really can't have dinner before leaving, and frankly the "airplane food" that is served is not what I expect for the additional cost of a sleeper room), and the train arrives Portland westbound at around 9:30-10:00 AM - plenty of time for breakfast between Pasco and Vancouver.

The Sightseer Lounge car is almost worthless on this section (well, frankly either way) - especially in the winter when it's dark as you leave Portland, and more often than not the weather is hardly something worth looking at (especially if it socks in most of the views of the Gorge).

A diner/lounge car would actually be an improvement by providing even a limited meal service that is better than the lounge car, but not quite a full diner. Further on the train east of Spokane, it could provide a second meal option for passengers - kind of like a "fast food restaurant" vs. "sit-down restaurant" option.

jp1822 wrote:What I don't get, is why they don't try operating a diner/lounge on the Vancouver, BC - Seattle train (serving dinner or breakfast as it did with a Talgo train set).

What I don't get is why a full diner service isn't offered south of Seattle - especially on trains 500 (8:45 AM departure out of Portland) and 509 (5:30 PM departure out of Seattle), as well as trains 501 (7:30 AM departure out of Seattle) and 508 (6:15 PM departure out of Portland). Trains 513 and 506 could also have a lunch service. Trains 507 and 516 travel between lunch and dinner and therefore don't really need much else.