All Things Empire Builder

Thanks for the update... It's been since 2003 when I last rode the Builder...

Maybe I'll need to do it again to see some old friends back in Montana and do a little railfanning.

so there is only one platform there???

That is correct, one platform, bordered on either side by the 2 station tracks.. Plus the stub on the west end

wigwagfan wrote:Tadman, your concept is would still require uncoupling the trainsets and uncoupling a locomotive from the engine consist.

Tadman suggests only that the 2 trains be coupled together at the cab car ends, the 2 engines to remain where they were, now on either end of the new combined train. Amtrak has run trains, like the Vermonter and Keystone sets, with engines on each end and with extra cab cars in the middle.
The world according to the Amtrak schedule is now shorter, 380 miles Portland-Spokane, 328 miles Seattle-Spokane.

Calif. Zephyr used to drop off cars in Salt Lake City for the Desert Wind to Los Angeles and Pioneer to Seattle. Since these cars (coach and sleeper for each connection) rans on the train's rear, I think a switch engine must have been involved. Unfortunately, I did not observe the movement on my transcontinental trip since I was in the depot trying to purchase sleeping accomodations for the run to LA (wound up spending the night in coach sleeping next to a stranger).

LI Loco wrote:Calif. Zephyr used to drop off cars in Salt Lake City for the Desert Wind to Los Angeles and Pioneer to Seattle.

In later years the connection between the Pioneer and the Zephyr/Desert Wind was at Denver (so the Pioneer could serve Wyoming), but originally the connect was indeed at SLC for all three trains.

Or, what was once called the "City of Everywhere" east (when it was purely UP).

And if I recall correctly, when the 3 trains split in Salt Lake, the Crew from the Pioneer did the switching with their road power..

They also once in a while remove a car at MSP. When I took the Empire Builder last summer, they did just that. Woke up at MSP wondering "why are the lights off?" and asked the conductor as he walked by and he told me just that.

Be assured that during the "City of Everywhere" operation by the UP, the switching at Ogden was performed by Yard crews. This often resulted in observing UP E-9's being hauled about by OUR&D (SP or UP but stenciled such) SW switch locomotives.

No wonder, back in the late 60's, "featherbedding' was very much in the railroad industry's lexicon.

However, both Amtrak and the Class I's have gained much work rules relief enabling Road crews (and road power) to do much work formerly inuring to Yard. As a general rule, today in either class of service, road crews can both cut and "drill' cars from a train (as defined in the Book of Rules) within Yard Limits so long as the work is part of readying that train for onward movement.

However, a carrier is still precluded from instructing an inbound Road crew with remaining time under the Hours of Service Law to "report to the Yardmaster and start drilling cars until you're dead".

Incidentially, I have heard in the past Amtrak's one-time combined 5-25-35 referred to in railfanese as the "Everywhere West". That was once a CB&Q slogan.

That is correct, but in St Paul, the Minnesota Commercial usually does the adding of the car to train 8 as opposed to the road crew.

AgentSkelly wrote:They also once in a while remove a car at MSP. When I took the Empire Builder last summer, they did just that. Woke up at MSP wondering "why are the lights off?" and asked the conductor as he walked by and he told me just that.

One other tidbit... The way to tell if the Portland Power is headed east on number 8 it the power will be back to back as oposed to the normal elephant style.....

The Portland Power runs Back to back so that they don't have to turn it in Spokane.

For the second time Amtrak will help me pass a class. (The first time was Sociology of Law and the teacher loved transportation issues.)

For my basic stats class, I will be doing a project on Empire Builder OT rates and several other factors (odds of making connections, etc)

I am curious as to the locations of longer stops on this route (IE Fuel Stops, or yard layovers, service stops, etc).

I will be looking at the OT rates for these stops as well, in an attempt to show statistically where they might be a break down.

I'm going to be doing this all on Minitab, I'll post it in December.

Not service stops, but extra time is allowed for passenger loading/crew change/smoking/etc.:
Milwaukee
Winona
Shelby

Service/fueling/switching stops:
St. Paul
Minot
Havre
Whitefish
Spokane


The former list is not comprehensive. I have not been far enough west to know first hand, but I have heard of short smoke stops being made in other locations (Williston comes to mind, in particular).

EricL wrote:Service/fueling/switching stops:
Whitefish

Whitefish is not a service, fueling or switching stop. In fact I'm not even sure it is an Amtrak crew change point to be honest with you; of all the times I got on or off the train or simply watched its arrival/departure, I never saw the Engineer/Conductor do a swap.

Believe it's scheduled for a 20-25 minute stop; it is Montana's most popular stop (by far), as well as a convenient smoke break as it's the first stop in daylight eastbound, and the last stop in daylight westbound (at least during the summer). Plenty of time to check out the cosmetically restored EMD NW-3 locomotive, the "Bruck", the station waiting room that used to be the freight house (the scale still works and you're welcome to weigh yourself on it), and the statue of a BN engineer handing down a model of a SD40-2 locomotive to a youngster in the park.

Not enough time to make it to the Great Northern Bar & Grill.

I decided to measure the times at the following:

Chicago
Minot
Whitefish
Spokane
PDX
SEA