Something is Puzzling Me about the GCS and Mitchell Field

I was looking over a map of the GCS and Mitchell Field Ext, and I noticed that there is about 11 sidings from the end of Mitchell to where the GCS connects back to the Hempstead Branch.

My question is this map is fairly recently made by the powers that be and it list sidings along the GCS and MF. I thought all the siding was torn up not counting the double track. They even indicate where the hand throws are located.

Are there still sidings left, but burried under the grass and leaves and stuff?

You can still tell that there is rail burried under some places, but for the most part, all the sidings are torn up

Presently, there are no sidings on the GCS. It's now a straight run to the end of track near Endo Blvd.
Even Garden City Yard has been torn up and retracked while the connection across Commercial Ave & Stewart Ave have been severed rendering any chances of utilizing this line for the "Nassau HUB" useless.
The grade crossing on the Roosevelt raceway sings have been torn up and repaved as well.
The LIRR has now installed gates on the East side of Quentin Roosevelt Blvd to seal off the tracks which currently has some Oyster Bay RR Museum equipment stored, This track will only be used by Circus & MOW cars in the future after OBRM stock is moved up to Museum grounds.

There is still plenty of a chance that this line will be used for the hub.

The locals have fought tooth and nail against any revival of that line.

Screw the locals. That track runs along houses for a total of two blocks. They were there before the locals. Run the damn trains and screw Pataki's deal with the MTA.

The thing is the map I was refering to came from the LIRR characteristic manual, I am not gonna say where I got it from, but it was recently issued meaning since the DE/DMs been in service due to the fact that there is a picture of them on the cover.

So if the siding are no longer there why still list them as being there?

Also I think if Nassau County can put enough pressue on the MTA/LIRR there is a chance to bring back rail service to the GCS, but I say it shopuld be in the form of light rail. This way it can they it be runned with about a small amount of LRVs, and it can run in the street in a protected area along the hub area, and connects with exist service at Country Life Prress, and perhaps extend down along the ROW for the old Hempstead branch to Mineola.

This would open up for more transit options to get to Nassau Hub as well as POI in the surrounding options.

Plus even though Mineola and Carle Place train stations are nearby, they are not close enough to be effective, especially during the holidays seasons when there is an increase in traffic to the mall, this is where light rail service could come into play and give travelers more options to get to and fro the mall.

Edit: one or two DMUs could handle all of this and during holiday times and sportiing events 3-4 could handle this with increased headways.

Look at NJT riverline from Camdem to Trenton, and they share same tracks with Conrail, NS and CSX.
NIMBY: Do you still have your plans on your proposed lines and new services?

One of One-Sixty wrote:Look at NJT riverline from Camdem to Trenton, and they share same tracks with Conrail, NS and CSX.

Well, the River Line has an arrangement to make that possible: light rail and heavy rail don't operate on shared rails at the same time. On the southern part of the line, down by Pavonia Yard, the light rail has its own dedicated tracks, but further north it's light rail by day, freight by night. This time seperation is how they got FRA approval to run the LRVs on that line, without them needing to be crashworthy to the same standard as a "normal" train.

The process doesn't work when passenger trains are involved, because passengers start to complain if you leave them sitting in a yard for a few hours.

I don't know that mall traffic would be sufficient to keep the numbers up for any line (heavy or light). Firstly, after a day of shopping, it's a lot easier to throw several bags of stuff in the trunk of a car than to lug them onto a train. Second, where is the service starting from, and where is it stopping? The stops would have to be in places where there are already people nearby; you're not going to draw people to drive any distance to the station to take a train to the mall, when they could just drive right to the mall.

From my experience in NJ with the Hudson-Bergen light rail, LRVs aren't suited to big loads (most recently, I dealt with taking the light rail back home after the 4th of July fireworks). The capacity of a single LRV is already less than just one "normal" train car, and I've never seen more than two MU'd together operating in revenue service (on the HBLR or the River Line). With a large number of people from the mall, with several bags of stuff, it would get really crowded really quickly.

The same would be true of service to/from the Coliseum. One need only look at the situation with PATH trains in Manhattan after a concert at MSG. By the time the concert is over, you're almost certainly in an "off peak" time and so you have less scheduled service to begin with. If you kept scheduled 15-minute headways, you're going to have a lot of people waiting. A HBLR car has a seated capacity of 68 people; double that for standees, and maybe the MTA had the forethought to "double up", and you're taking about 270 people with each trip. You'd probably end up with the "Belmont effect", where trains fill up to capacity, and lots of people are left waiting for the next one. Unlike Belmont, though, there's not likely to be any extra service. The end result is a lot of people waiting for a train, and then trying to cram their way in. I don't know about most people, but I'd rather be sitting in my car waiting to get out than waiting in a long line for a train (where I know I'm inevitably going to end up being pushed around and sandwiched between several people).

I'm not sure that running regular rail service would be any better, though. You gain extra seats on each train, but you wouldn't have the same frequency of service .

I suppose it all depends on what the point of the service is. Are you trying to serve the mall, trying to serve the coliseum, or trying to serve office space? The "right choice" depends on what problem you're trying to solve.

It would serve all of them, making with special express serivce to the Coliseum during major events, the Coliseum stop would double for a stop the Hotel as well where every other train would stop there.

LRV is/was the first option I could think of at the time of my post, any kind of DMU or EMU can easily be used instead of a LRV. the other reason i suggested LRV is for street running in a protected area (think SEPTA Route 101 and 102) granted they are trolley based they are still considered LRV.

As for the mall, even though I drive, you should see how people cram on to the buses especially during this time of year.

So any kinda of extra service DMU/EMU or LRV,s buses serving this area where people can easily connect to other lines at Mineola & Hempstead would be a blessing.

The proposed route would basically service the Nassau HUB, Mineola, NCC, and the Roosevelt Field Mall, with stops at Hofstra, Country Life Press/Hempstead, The Coliseum/Hotel (limited service except during events), Roosevelt Field, Mineola, Nassau Hub, and Commerce Blvd & Clinton Ave and depending on the equipment Jamaica.

Some of the problems I see with this is getting on and off of Hempstead Tpke and the interchanges at Country Life/Hempstead and Mineola, and maybe access to the mall. If access is given to Jamaica the interhcnage there as well, but that should not be to hard.

I had old plans where I had worked out all the logistics with possible alternative routes for the Hub with future expansion down to Jones Beach for the summer time and when there is concerts there. It would beat the bumper to bumper traffic trying to get to and from there during rush times and special events.

By using DMU/EMUs it can then utilize all existing LIRR infrastructure without any modifications.

I certainly do still have my plans. Some changes have been made, such as the alignment of the Nassau Hub loop now serving NCC east campus directly rather than just the stop at west campus.

And I have to say, I think your choice of light rail for the secondary is one that is poorly thought out. While it would be great to have light rail in Nassau(and I have plans for several lines), the secondary would be best served by expanded commuter rail. The existing plan is to convert the Far Rockaway, West Hempstead, and Oyster Bay branches to light rail(effectively killing all LIRR service on those lines) and run them directly into the hub.

I have prepared an email to the Nassau County Planning Commission asking them why they feel this situation is better than simply expanding the commuter rail option they have proposed. The reason I think commuter rail is better is because it can use existing infrastructure without terminating LIRR service on that infrastructure. This is certainly cheaper than building all the new infrastructure involved with a light rail system that would require construction of entirely new ROWs, regardless of whether it is private ROW or street running.

The current Nassau Hub plan calls for light rail service to serve the malls directly. I'm assuming that means one seat service from all stops on the Oyster Bay, West Hempstead, and Far Rockaway lines. Granted, under my plan, the only mall service would be via a Hempstead-Kings Park-Greenport line(don't ask me about Greenport, I'll explain that in another thread at a later time). I don't doubt the ability of it to attract riders as LIB currently brings plenty of people to Roosevelt Field Mall

As for the lesser frequencies involved with running the system as commuter rail, I really don't see the need for the entire system to be running on headways of less than 20 minutes during rush hour. This is certainly possible with commuter rail. Even 15 minutes would be possible. As for service WITHIN the hub, that can be provided by either light rail or monorail service operating at higher frequencies

The system would serve the hub and all its elements(offices, coliseum, NCC, Hofstra, museum row, shopping, etc). And don't forget, the coliseum stop will serve not only the coliseum and the Marriott, but also all the proposed office and residential development for that property. This stop specifically will be VERY important in the future

I think a hub system should be operated on multiple levels. There needs to be a circulator service, but more importantly, I think that there needs to be a system of routes operating directly into the Nassau Hub rather than just have connecting services at key stations like Hempstead, Mineola, and Hicksville.

NIMBYkiller wrote: And I have to say, I think your choice of light rail for the secondary is one that is poorly thought out. While it would be great to have light rail in Nassau(and I have plans for several lines), the secondary would be best served by expanded commuter rail. The existing plan is to convert the Far Rockaway, West Hempstead, and Oyster Bay branches to light rail(effectively killing all LIRR service on those lines) and run them directly into the hub.

That is why I stated later it should be some kind of DMU/EMU, it will still be heavy rail and can be used with exisiting LIRR infrastructure.

Also with a DMU/EMU, with the right planning service can include service to Jamaica.

The route I had orginally planned out back in 05 (the on mentioned above is based looslely off of it and is based on memory) using DMU/EMUs including just that with future expansion to Jones Beach.

Jamaica can be an end terminus or a starting one, but including Jamaica even though it is way out in Queens would allow a one seat one ride to the mall, NCC, the hub and the marriot/Coliseum. Also depending on where and if the third track at Mineola is put in, the Nassau Scoot, could use that space and connect to the old Hempstead branch from Mineola up to the GCS.

This is just bits and pieces of how I have it, but in a sense there will be several trains that would make that circular movements while others would be just point to point in a sense.

Jamaica service is definately a possibility. Honestly, with the reopening of the central(and Nassau County actually is looking at the central to Newbridge Rd for service to Hicksville from the hub), there could be a new service from Babylon to NYP or GCT via the central(provided they electrify the central branch along with it).

Hey Nimby, I do not know if you knew about this, but the county has a sign-up form that you can submit to be apart of the Hub Planning and stuff.

Form here You can mail it in or fax it.

THIS IS PERFECT! Thank you so much! I could not find an email address on the planning comissions website, so this is the next best thing. Thanks alot.

It's really iconic, Nassau had a pretty extensive trolly system at one time, does anyone know why exactly it went away? L.A. (many cities for that matter) had a great trolly system which big oil pressured out after WW II, now they are spending trillions to bring it back!