How to bring passenger trains to Portsmouth

One train a day each way to Portsmouth would make absolutely no sense
at all. There would be major capacity issues with regard to the "Western
Route" for this service in any way. The logical way to Portsmouth would
be an extension from Newburyport north as it could serve other points on
this route too.
As for the bridge, this line would likely be for passenger trains only so it
would be possible to build a high level fixed span that could be handled by
passenger trains without a big problem. It would be a simple extension of
the existing trains from Newburyport north a distance of about 20 miles.
With the present attitude in New Hampshire regarding passenger rail
service, I do not look for this to happen anytime soon.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:One train a day each way to Portsmouth would make absolutely no sense at all.

Agreed. Part of the reason why the Downeaster is successful is because there are four roundtrips per day, and they're in the process of adding a fifth roundtrip. If the DE had started its life with only one roundtrip per day, it never would have gotten off the ground.

Also, being the railfan train junky that I am, i'd rather have them go via haverhill than build a passenger trail only bridge in newburyport. That way, in the future if NH ever started to embrace rail again, they could build a proper bridge and run freight and people over it.

Yes, it would be nice if they rebuilt the bridge over the Merrimack and ran the T up to Portsmouth. But we're talking what, 80-90 million for the bridge alone, and that's not even including the cost of rehabilitating the rest of the line. The cheapest way to get service to Portsmouth is via Newfields. That's the route that the Rockingham Planning Commission is
pursuing; they know that getting $$$$ from the T, with the kind of backlog they have, could take 20-30 years minimum. Ain't gonna happen, especially since they just added Newburyport less than 10 years ago.

For upgrading nine miles of track with maybe a couple of passing sidings placed along the current Guilford track north of Haverhill, you could get decent, several times a day Downeaster style service to Portsmouch. It would be the best you could muster, cost effectively. Forget about this Merrimack bridge fantasy; it's not going to happen within 30 years.

It would probably make sense for MBTA to run its trains to Portsmith if those tracks over the Merrimack at Newburyport lead there.

trainhq wrote:Yes, it would be nice if they rebuilt the bridge over the Merrimack and ran the T up to Portsmouth. But we're talking what, 80-90 million for the bridge alone, and that's not even including the cost of rehabilitating the rest of the line. The cheapest way to get service to Portsmouth is via Newfields. That's the route that the Rockingham Planning Commission is
pursuing; they know that getting $$$$ from the T, with the kind of backlog they have, could take 20-30 years minimum. Ain't gonna happen, especially since they just added Newburyport less than 10 years ago.

For upgrading nine miles of track with maybe a couple of passing sidings placed along the current Guilford track north of Haverhill, you could get decent, several times a day Downeaster style service to Portsmouch. It would be the best you could muster, cost effectively. Forget about this Merrimack bridge fantasy; it's not going to happen within 30 years.

I wouldn't be so sure about this one. It is about eight miles farther via
the "Western Route" and it is likely that the trip would take longer too.
I think there would need to be a major expansion of the physical plant to
accomodate commuter trains over the "Western Route" too.
Guilford has been quite cooperative with Amtrak since the Downeaster
started operating but I am not so sure that a number of commuter trains
each way would get such a welcome. If they did, major double tracking
would likely be needed before it happened.
From an operating standpoint, it would be much simpler to extend some
or most of the Newburyport trains on to Portsmouth.
Given the feeling in New Hampshire, I doubt if there will be any regular
passenger service to Portsmouth withing the next thirty years anyway.
Noel Weaver

I have to disagree, it would not cost 80 or 90 million to repair the trestle over the Merrimack River. A very large study has already been done on this (repairing the Hampton route), and the cost were weighed including repairing the Merrimack River trestle (which some of it is actually in very good condition considering its been sitting for 20 something years), as well as the smaller trestles across the Hampton Marsh, as well as building new or refurbishing existing stations along the route. I read the whole thing, and it is very interesting. The link to the .PDF can be found on this board.

The Hampton line is still used, but only as far South into Hampton as Foss Manufacturing. Steve Foss paid out of pocket in order to have Guilford continue hauling pellets down to the plant (for non-woven fabrics). The line South of Foss is smashed in and in rough shape, with lots of track missing etc. The track would be replaced anyway with higher poundage track, so thats beside the point.

I think they should get this line back up and running, considering there was a recent article in my local paper talking about re-routing Route 1 so that it went BEHIND (West of) the tracks in Hampton. They said sometime around 2010 this could happen. I find this idea highly, highly disturbing, and these big wig dopes must be on acid to try something like that. With the main problem being parking in downtown Hampton, the resurgence of the train for transportation through Hampton to Portsmouth and points South would be the best thing to happen to my town. However, with the old washed up folks that seem to be making the majority of decisions around here, its no wonder everything in town is closing, including Colts News which has been uptown for almost 100 years lol and is a landmark, 7-11 just closed after being there for as long as I can remember, and most businesses that open downtown usually last an average of 12 months because the lack of parking prevents people from "walking around and shopping", unlike in cities like Portsmouth where thats a tradition.

I think some young(er) voices and some action might make people wake up. Honestly, I could care less what some 60 or 70 year old guy tells me about this situation, because most of these people wont even be around if it came to fruition. I am thinking about my future and the kids future.

I hope that one day the train will ride through Hampton again

Here is the link to the big study mentioned above (thanks to rr_explorer for this)...

http://www.rpc-nh.org/PDFs/docs/HampBranchFeasStudy.pdf

Having initiated this topic, I find the discussion really good, with a lot of interesting insights. Here's some more from me:

If money's the issue--and it is in the Granite State--then it seems to me the way to go is via Newfields (sorry, Hampton folks ), because the track upgrade is about 9 miles long, compared with 20 via N'port. Further, the Portsmouth branch is in better condition (but nothing to write home about ), and wouldn't have to be totally rebuilt, as is the case south of Hampton.

If time is the issue, an important one for commuters, I used a 1957 B&M public timetable for running times.
Via the Eastern route & Newburyport, a rush hour commuter train took 1:28 to travel from Boston to Portsmouth, with limited stops. Via the Western route & Haverhill, the run to Newfields was 1:25. To this, I think we would have to add another 12 minutes over the Portsmouth Branch, for a total of 1:38, a time difference of about 10 minutes, depending on the running time over the Branch. As Noel points out, the Western route schedule is a longer distance, but only by about 6 or 7 miles.

The report link above is fascinating, but it's already 4 years old since its revision. It's apparent that federal funding could pay for a portion of this expansion, but my question is:
Is anyone in New Hampshire even asking for money?

I also think that there are more potential commuters on the Western Route option. As I pointed out earlier, Dover and Durham, while not on the route, are not a long drive to Newfields, the closest proposed station. Exeter would draw a lot of passengers, and Stratham& Kensington, border on it. Adding Plaistow and Atkinson would increase usage, of course.

Operationally, a new signal system is in place on the Western Route. Top speed between Newfields and MBTA territory is currently 75 MPH.
A new siding would be in order, and that can be placed between Exeter and East Kingston, where there are no grade crossings to block. In Massachusetts, I would propose stops at Haverhill, Lawrence (new MVRTA transit center under construction, I hear), and Anderson RTC (bus transfer to Logan available). This means service would go via the Wildcat.

The big losers would be the coast folks, but the drive from Hampton to Newburyport is only about 7 or 8 miles.

Any futher thoughts?

I'd still like the service revived in Hampton. We already have the stations including the one in North Hampton, and have the means. Hampton Beach is the largest "resort" attraction in the area during the Summer season. It would be beneficial to have the Hampton stop back for everyone in the whole area. Yeah, through Newfields to Portsmouth is faster. But Newfields and that area would have nothing to offer, except a station, and route access.

And you're lookin at about 11 miles from downtown Hampton to Newburyport, bout 20 minutes give or take a few depending on traffic etc. A little more in the Summer.

"Quote from Jonny Bolt"
"I think some young(er) voices and some action might make people wake up. Honestly, I could care less what some 60 or 70 year old guy tells me about this situation, because most of these people wont even be around if it came to fruition. I am thinking about my future and the kids future.

I hope that one day the train will ride through Hampton again" [/quote]

The previous shows a total lack of respect and it would not bother me one
bit if it was deleted. I am in the 60 or 70 year old age group and spent
41 years on the railroad.
If you do not like what I put on here, you are free to ignore it.
As for what comes in the future, I know I will not see what will come in
years ahead just like you did not see what was around a few years back.
You do not need to agree with what others write but you should respect
them.
Noel Weaver

Mr. Weaver, first off let me apologize if you took what I said personally. I assure you that I meant NOTHING against anyone who even posted in this thread, or anyone who posts here on this board. In saying what I said, I was referring to the Selectmen and Town Manager in my hometown and the people who run this town. Again, I was NOT directing anything at anyone here. I am disgruntled with the way certain people in this town handle things, as well as their outlook and attitude about things for the future.

Believe me, I would not direct such disdain and confusion at a 41 year veteran of the railroad, and someone who supports it.

I only meant to express my aggravation with certain members of my community and the way the railroad is being handled here. Again, I am sorry, and should've chosen my words better.