Amtrak First Class Options on Regional and Long Distance Trains

NaugyRR wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:34 am On a Regional I don't really see the need, plus I don't see them trying to find crews to act as dedicated first class car attendants a-la the Acela. I also think Amtrak would want to keep the Acela as THE first class service so they can keep prices high for it.

In response to electricon, my wife and I like to splurge once or twice a year and ride first class to Boston for long weekends at the Marriott Long Wharf. Yes we are aware that the dollar for value isn't quite there, but the value for experience is. We work hard all year so it's nice to use the station lounges, get waited on, have table seating, and just enjoy a more laid back atmosphere. It's sort of the same reason why we ride business on Empire Trains; it's a more laid back environment than the rest of coach class and we like the armchair-style seating. If I was riding everyday I wouldn't pay extra for the higher class tiers, but for people like us who travel for leisure it's worth the extra for the experience.

I am glad you do enjoy your first class train services to Boston. Driving on the congested I-95 is not the easiest way to get there. Would you still make that trip if that first class service disappeared? Or would you have to lease out a private rail car instead to get that first class service? What I'm trying to ask is that you absolutely must have first class service? Nice to have and must have are two entirely different concepts.

As long as first class covers its costs to the same extent as coach, why not give people a choice? And if it yields more than coach, so much the better.

electricron wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:17 am I am glad you do enjoy your first class train services to Boston. Driving on the congested I-95 is not the easiest way to get there. Would you still make that trip if that first class service disappeared? Or would you have to lease out a private rail car instead to get that first class service? What I'm trying to ask is that you absolutely must have first class service? Nice to have and must have are two entirely different concepts.

Not to come off as argumentative, but your initial post was in regards to overpriced food and why people just don't bring their own if they want it so much, not if First Class is a necessity or not.

Of course I would still take the trip regardless of class offerings, and if you read my post that you replied to, I even stated "If I was riding everyday I wouldn't pay extra for the higher class tiers, but for people like us who travel for leisure it's worth the extra for the experience. " No one is suggesting that First Class be a requisite, which I also noted in the original post, "On a Regional I don't really see the need"

I'm not quite sure how I gave off the impression that I'm the luxury required, need private car type, but I can assure you my wife and I are far from Amtrak's target demographic for regular First Class passengers. Like ExCon said, if it's an option that yields profits and fills seats then who cares? It's not harming anyone or anything, it's adding to the NEC's profitability, hits the airline audience in the right spot, and upholds the Acela as a premium brand. No one's forced to ride First, and there are plenty of Regional and commuter rail options for those that would rather travel economically.

People are going to spend money on things that have value to them, regardless of what you, me, and my friend Bob thinks. We all have hobbies and interests and experiences that we spend money on, that I'm sure other people would poo-poo on the price of. If you can afford it and it makes you happy then that's all that matters!

ExCon90 wrote:As long as first class covers its costs to the same extent as coach, why not give people a choice? And if it yields more than coach, so much the better.

Now hold food service and sleepers to that standard...

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For sleepers that should be a given -- no fair having coach passengers subsidize sleepers. As to food service, not so easy. In theory, a passenger making a 2- or 3-hour trip can easily get something at the origin station, but some people, possibly many, have a really full day and hardly have time to grab some takeout on their way to catch a train. That time on the train may be their only chance all day to get something to eat -- one thing they can't and shouldn't do while driving. Congress has already demonstrated the futility of trying to make meal service a profit center; a study might show that the availability of a modest meal or snack service would sufficiently increase ticket revenue to justify providing it*. (A thought: does Amtrak record what percentage of passengers on a particular train bought something at the snack counter?

* The Austrian Federal Railways found out some years ago that substituting snack-bar for white-tablecloth dining service reduced their first-class ticket revenue by more than they saved by downgrading the meal service.

Nah, Congress didn't display the futility of evaluating food service on a profit-loss basis. They just never enforced it from 1981 when it became statutory.

A bill passed in 2015 by a Republican House and Senate, signed by a Democrat President gave Amtrak five years to finally get their act together. Richard Anderson was the first Amtrak executive to finally be heading in that direction.

That progress was reversed and overturned in 2020 by a Democrat House and Senate, signed into law by a Democrat President.....

Next time this gets flipped back, there won't be a five year effective date.

I would love a business class seat if it wasn't a coach seat with a free drink.

I was fully expecting Business Class on they Pennsylvanian to be 2+1 seating, not coach 2+2 seating. No, it's expensive 2+2 seating with a free drink.

Acela-style First Class? On a Regional or multi-trip service? No, it's a waste for anything under five hours. You're getting a full meal out of it, so you better be on an 8-hour or greater trip, and that's a day trip deal at least.

Jeff,

Let’s be honest. A UP or ATSF 44 seat coach would almost count as First Class in Amcrap’s world.

Absolutely, and they are 100% ADA non-compliant...

People love to complain about new seating , but comfort requires space , and there's only so much you can do with a seat narrow enough to accommodate a wheelchair in the center aisle. The frame and structure which used to be outside shoulder width is now squarely on the shoulder plates for most people.

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Food service is a loss leader in a number of industries. Holding food service to a special profit standard as Mica did was flawed and just micromanagement. Such cuts don’t make sense if it causes a service to go further into the hole as a result of less patronage. If the goal is to discontinue passenger service altogether and replace it with bus service (or nothing) then just go all the way and advocate for that rather than make little cuts designed to sabotage the service. While many of the GOP theologians like Heritage and Cato remain staunchly anti passenger rail and Amtrak, the situation on the hill isn’t quite down the partisan line as it was. After all Johnson couldn’t even put the THUD bill on the floor in the GOP house due to the Amtrak and rail cuts.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 4:28 pm I would love a business class seat if it wasn't a coach seat with a free drink.

I was fully expecting Business Class on they Pennsylvanian to be 2+1 seating, not coach 2+2 seating. No, it's expensive 2+2 seating with a free drink.

This. The 2+1 on the Detroit trains is nice seating, but occasionally you get the 2+2 standard coach.

NO thanks.

There is more legroom, a footrest, curtains and more seat recline in the 2x2 business coaches than a standard Amfleet 1 coach. But yes the seat dimensions themselves are basically the same - not as nice as the club-dinettes. And on the Pennsylvanian it is kind of pointless because it has Amfleet 2 coaches which provide a nearly identical experience to the 2x2 Amfleet 1 business cars. It’s a bit of a step up on a regional - but admittedly probably not worth the cost on that particular train - I guess the only other benefit would be an assigned seat if they assign them on that route (unsure if they do.)

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:54 am There is more legroom, a footrest, curtains and more seat recline in the 2x2 business coaches than a standard Amfleet 1 coach. But yes the seat dimensions themselves are basically the same - not as nice as the club-dinettes. And on the Pennsylvanian it is kind of pointless because it has Amfleet 2 coaches which provide a nearly identical experience to the 2x2 Amfleet 1 business cars. It’s a bit of a step up on a regional - but admittedly probably not worth the cost on that particular train - I guess the only other benefit would be an assigned seat if they assign them on that route (unsure if they do.)

They didn't. And I felt the leg room was the same as coach, which was already big and roomy when I rode coach. It was tighter on the NEC Regionals.