Second Avenue Subway: Phase 2.a? Phase 5? 125th St. Extension to West Side

An off-hand remark is leading to speculation that Phase II to 125th may be extended to the West Side. Does this make sense? Should other extensions to the Bronx or Brooklyn be considered first? YOU MAKE THE CALL!

Yes, it does, and it cites a potential boon for Metro-North.

Think about it this way. You're running to the edge from Harlem on the 1 to catcha Metro North. Your options are to keep taking the 1 down to Times Square/42nd street, grab the 7 or the Shuttle to Grand Central, and hope you make your train... or get off at 125th and take the 125 bus over a few blocks, incur another fare, and hope traffic isn't bad.

Hint: This is New York City. The traffic is always bad.

Extend the T all the way to the Broadway line (hint, add a third track for a shuttle train), and you get a free transfer to 125th and Park Ave, and it's a short run to get to the platforms.

Another scenario: you work in Inwood but your home is over in Morris Park. That's the 5 to the 2 at East 180 St to the 1 at 96th, or the 5 to the 4 at 149th Street to the B or D at Yankee Stadium to the A at 145th. Or you take the 12 SBS.

Extend the T and you get the 5 to the T to the A or 1, a simpler transfer plan.

A third, back to Metro North: You work in Washington Heights. You need to get the A. The most reliable plan is Grand Central, take the 7 or S to Times Square, walk to 42 St, and grab the A there.

Extend the T, and you can get off at 125th, grab the T (or Shuttle) to 125th A, and you're express trip gets cut by several stops. The only thing you have to worry about is the significant other calling you to pick something up, so please swing by Grand Central.

In other words, you get a north-of-Central Park transfer line that can cut travel times in many cases, and improve quality of overall service. I've been talking about this in consideration of getting subway service to LaGaurdia. That's the first step.

Good points all.

My observations:

- you’ve already got the TBM in place, just keep going across 125th
- is it possible to connect the Q to the west side IND lines? That would make for an interesting service pattern, and obviate the need for reversing direction.
- how does this affect Phases III and IV? They’re having a hard time just getting Phase II going.
- congestion pricing in Manhattan promises to provide much needed funding for NYCT. I hope they build a provision to provide a stub tunnel North to potentially connect the future “T” to the Concourse line in da Bronx.

I get a giggle when I think of riding the SAS on the “Q/T”!

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:09 am - is it possible to connect the Q to the west side IND lines? That would make for an interesting service pattern, and obviate the need for reversing direction.

So I pulled out the subway track map book (nyctrackbook.com, new edition coming out soon) and north of 125th Street is a set of pocket tracks going up, bypassing 135th Street before tying into both local and express tracks... and before the A/C splits from the B/D as it gets to 145th Street. Probably storage tracks, but then with some tweaking they could tunnel under a double crossover to connect to a below-track Q/T line. Depends on how much room is there to spare, but it's an interesting idea, e

I can see the T taking that but not the Q. If they can do three tracks and two platforms on the Q/T expansion of the 4/5/6 125th Street station, then I can see terminating the Q there (it's long enough) or all the way to 125th 1 line. The T could go up the IND line there.

The "off-hand" remark I alluded to in the OP has legs: Gothamist

Gov. Hochul wants to extend 2nd Ave. subway to West Harlem

Gov. Kathy Hochul is throwing her support behind a new plan to extend the Q train along 125th Street to West Harlem — a measure that calls for building an additional three stations to help bring the line across Manhattan to Broadway, Gothamist has learned.

Hochul will make the announcement as part of her State of the State address Tuesday afternoon, marking the start of a new, expanded vision for the still-nascent Second Avenue train line first opened on the East Side in 2017. If completed, new stations would be built at Lenox Avenue, St. Nicholas Avenue and Broadway.

The westward expansion would be years away and comes with an estimated price tag of $8.1 billion, which includes the cost to buy a new fleet of trains. Hochul’s support comes before construction has even started on a separate, $7.7 billion extension project on the Second Avenue subway that is expected to take eight years to complete.
...

Any geology experts here? What are the soil conditions and bathymetry like between 125th/Broadway and Edgewater NJ Tunnel Portal? What depth would the Broadway station need to be in order to continue west to NJ?

That's an interesting thought: an extension to Jersey. Where would it come out or connect to?

I'm more thinking of a connection to the IND so that the Q could run in a loop.

Once in Jersey? Who knows. Probably down the palisades along Bergenline Avenue, where buses (jitneys) currently run at 60 second headways.

Maybe a branch to Vince Lombardi Park and Ride and Meadowlands, through Edgewater Tunnel (runs from the river to NJ Turnpike area).

Vince Lombardi is near the under construction brand new “Bus Parking Facility North” - the 500 bus garage. A large bus connection point can be accessed easily at Vince Lombardi Park and Ride for all buses coming from 80/95.

I read all the other responses and decided to look at it this from a practical standpoint. My initial reaction to Gov. Hochul's proposal - What a waste of money!!

People living in the western 125th St area have 3 north/south subway lines (Broadway (1), 8th Av (at St. Nicholas Av) -(A, B, C, D), 7th Av/Lenox (2,3) which distance-wise are relatively close to each other. The MNRR station and the Lexington Av station (4,5,6) are further east. Local bus service is somewhat frequent along 125th St so anyone wanting to go west to east (or vice versa) have enough surface options.

It was mentioned somewhere that when completed (I won't say if) the west/east section (west of Lexington Av) would serve around 240,000 customers - I totally doubt it. One reason is the bus service I mentioned, the other is that with significant number of north/south subway lines so close to each other on the western side - why would anyone who wants to go downtown from there want to have to eastward first then southward only to wind up go westward to 7th Av/Broadway at midtown when they can get on a direct north/south train (and transfer in midtown to other lines as needed). This west to east to south and back to west could add 20 minutes or more to their trip. The same would apply to the return trip.

The only reason I can see Hochul proposing this that she (or someone with her ear) reads our forum and thought my "125th to LGA" subway line idea was too good not to build. If that is the actual case, then I want my consulting fee ($10,000 USD one-time).