Grand Central Madison TIMETABLES AND RIDERSHIP THREAD

I should have figured this out earlier. The LIRR has a fixed number of cars. Most can go to Grand Central, some can't. In order to run more trains, they need to shorten the number of cars per train. So, two 12 car trains now become three 8 car trains. Now my 12 car train, where it was possible to get a seat, is now a packed 8 car train

Does Catherine Rinaldi have a clue, or does she check enough boxes to be President of both Metro-North and the LIRR?

Was the whole train completely packed or just the first few cars? I've ridden trains out of Penn where the first two cars were standing room only but the last two were almost empty and I had a three-seater to myself.........

For now trial-and-error is the name of the new LIRR game. When all of this shakes out in the coming months I'm sure adjustments to both schedules and train lengths will be made. Don't sweat it.

If there are a fixed number of M7 and M9 cars, how do you create more trains? Have trains run with fewer cars. My understanding is the M9 cars are on back-order, but that is another story for another day.

The only seats I saw empty was mostly middle seats in the row of three in all 8 cars. Post covid, this is not a popular seat. When you change a 12 car train to an 8 car train, it is not surprising that most of the seats are now taken and folks are now standing.

Granted, this was day one, but I don't see any changes in the near future. If you miss a train now, it is a much longer wait for the next one.

CX: I am going to guesstimate the amount of LIRR MU cars currently in service:
830 M7 cars, 170 M9 cars, 100 M3 cars (returned to service with new schedule)
Total 1100 - Previous mention was that 12 car MU trains would be reduced to 10.
The LIRR is going to have to do more research on MU car assignments for peak period weekday trains.

Even before "The Problem" began almost three years ago "The Dreaded Middle Seat" was shunned by
many riders...Some have a feeling of being "trapped" using that seat - In most cases I would rather stand
especially if I knew that I would disturb a fellow rider upon exiting...

The M3 cars have a higher seating/standing capacity of passengers - The M7s are not good "standee" cars...

Everyone: From media reports Monday February 27 was an interesting first day of the new schedule...
The last LIRR timetable with significant service changes and adjustments was January 18, 1988 - when
full MU service began at the completion of the Hicksville-Ronkonkoma Electrification project...

I found an interesting error in the new Hempstead Branch schedule concerning westbound Floral Park service:
The letter A is used to designate Main Line trains serving Platform A/Track 3. In this instance all trains stopping
at FP were marked A including westbound trains from Hempstead that can only serve island Platform B...

To be continued...MACTRAXX

Head-end View wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:38 pm Was the whole train completely packed or just the first few cars? I've ridden trains out of Penn where the first two cars were standing room only but the last two were almost empty and I had a three-seater to myself.........

For now trial-and-error is the name of the new LIRR game. When all of this shakes out in the coming months I'm sure adjustments to both schedules and train lengths will be made. Don't sweat it.

401 Penn to Ronkonkoma (replaces previous 355 which was always packed to start with) went from 12 cars to 8 cars.
SRO 10 mins before doors closing.

G - From the new Ronkonkoma Branch timetable:

Train #1960 eastbound PM Peak
Leave Penn Station 4:01 PM; Kew Gardens 4:17 PM; Arrive/Leave Jamaica 4:20/4:21 PM; Mineola 4:34 PM
Hicksville 4:42 PM then all stops (except Pinelawn) to Ronkonkoma-Arrive 5:20 PM

Previous train: 3:31 PM; Next train: 4:34 PM. This is a BIG gap between trains at a prime PM commute time
from Penn Station east towards Ronkonkoma. A 10 or 12 car MU train is a necessity. At some point a new
train addition should be looked into to help close this service gap before or after Train #1960.

I decided to look into the weekday Ronkonkoma Branch trains that originate and terminate in BRENTWOOD:

AM Peak westbound: 5:16, 5:48, 6:03, 7:57 AM. Alternate service and reasonable transfer times for riders
from Central Islip and Ronkonkoma are available for these four trains.

Starting trains at intermediate stations during AM Peak periods offers riders more service options - with the
most important making seats available westbound at the times of highest demand. Transferring at Brentwood
westbound during the AM Peak is not that big of a deal and probably will not affect many riders.

On the other hand I do NOT like the forced transfer eastbound at Brentwood during the PM Peak hours.
Train number terminating at BRENTWOOD along with the next train east to Central Islip and Ronkonkoma:
#1056 - 5:55 PM - BWD 5:59, CI 6:03, RON 6:11 PM
#1058 - 6:05 PM - BWD 6:08, CI 6:12, RON 6:20 PM
#1060 - 6:32 PM - BWD 6:45, CI 6:49, RON 6:57 PM
#1062 - 6:53 PM - BWD 7:05, CI 7:09, RON 7:17 PM
#1064 - 7:11 PM - BWD 7:22, CI 7:26, RON 7:34 PM
#1072 - 8:36 PM - BWD 9:00, CI 9:06, RON 9:14 PM

Of these six trains does the equipment deadhead east to the Ronkonkoma Yard or turn at Brentwood
Station to go back west? Adding and extending these trains to Central Islip and Ronkonkoma could
provide some additional service - and where possible end the Brentwood transfer...MACTRAXX

Everyone: The initial days of the new LIRR system timetable changes have been tough for commuters -
https://longisland.news12.com/lirr-comm ... son-launch
Lack of express service and crowded trains are examples of rider complaints with the new schedules.

With the mention of the Ronkonkoma Branch - Before "The Problem" began three years ago this month
the Ronkonkoma Branch had the most peak-hour 12 car MU trains assigned. As ridership increased over
the past two years some of those 12 car train assignments were returned to the schedule.

With a strong commuter backlash developing express trains and updated car assignments will be a top
priority in the coming months with schedule revisions...MACTRAXX

Since I have the TrainTime app on my phone (I upgraded to an iPhone last year after moving) so I can stay close to home and printed timetables were phased out in 2020, I saw a few trains added and interesting sequences of direct service.

1.) The "Ronkonkoma Rocket" returns. After departing Hicksville, the next stop is Brentwood, then stops at Central Islip and terminates at Ronkonkoma.
2.) Half-hourly service from Babylon to Penn Station continues, with direct service to GCM being hourly. Now, the Babylon Branch sees 3 trains an hour.
3.) The Ronkonkoma and Port Jefferson/Huntington Branch trains from obviously Huntington now sees half-hourly service with one to Penn and the other to GCM.

I only looked at the top 3 busiest branches, and it's also half-hourly to either destination (if you change at Jamaica). It also seems that it takes the same amount of time for a train to travel Woodside to either Manhattan terminal (about 10-15 minutes).

Everyone saw the problems coming but went along with the approved narrative of how wonderful GCT service would be. That includes all the pundits in the newspapers and bloggers who remained silent (or compensated to do so) while the riders vented their frustrations at tone deaf "listening" forums.

The politicians also kept quiet (hey its was an election year when the schedules came out) when constituents warned them the railroad would become one big "local" all stops service. Curious as to how they handle the grievances.

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 7:03 pm G - From the new Ronkonkoma Branch timetable:

Train #1960 eastbound PM Peak
Leave Penn Station 4:01 PM; Kew Gardens 4:17 PM; Arrive/Leave Jamaica 4:20/4:21 PM; Mineola 4:34 PM
Hicksville 4:42 PM then all stops (except Pinelawn) to Ronkonkoma-Arrive 5:20 PM

Previous train: 3:31 PM; Next train: 4:34 PM. This is a BIG gap between trains at a prime PM commute time
from Penn Station east towards Ronkonkoma. A 10 or 12 car MU train is a necessity. At some point a new
train addition should be looked into to help close this service gap before or after Train #1960.

I decided to look into the weekday Ronkonkoma Branch trains that originate and terminate in BRENTWOOD:

AM Peak westbound: 5:16, 5:48, 6:03, 7:57 AM. Alternate service and reasonable transfer times for riders
from Central Islip and Ronkonkoma are available for these four trains.

Starting trains at intermediate stations during AM Peak periods offers riders more service options - with the
most important making seats available westbound at the times of highest demand. Transferring at Brentwood
westbound during the AM Peak is not that big of a deal and probably will not affect many riders.

On the other hand I do NOT like the forced transfer eastbound at Brentwood during the PM Peak hours.
Train number terminating at BRENTWOOD along with the next train east to Central Islip and Ronkonkoma:
#1056 - 5:55 PM - BWD 5:59, CI 6:03, RON 6:11 PM
#1058 - 6:05 PM - BWD 6:08, CI 6:12, RON 6:20 PM
#1060 - 6:32 PM - BWD 6:45, CI 6:49, RON 6:57 PM
#1062 - 6:53 PM - BWD 7:05, CI 7:09, RON 7:17 PM
#1064 - 7:11 PM - BWD 7:22, CI 7:26, RON 7:34 PM
#1072 - 8:36 PM - BWD 9:00, CI 9:06, RON 9:14 PM

Of these six trains does the equipment deadhead east to the Ronkonkoma Yard or turn at Brentwood
Station to go back west? Adding and extending these trains to Central Islip and Ronkonkoma could
provide some additional service - and where possible end the Brentwood transfer...MACTRAXX

They all go to KO station for a turn or the yard... This makes no sense

Article Paywalled: https://www.newsday.com/amp/long-island ... e-ch9i2g80

Trains lengthened:

Following a flood of complaints from riders since the Long Island Rail Road overhauled its new service plan, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority added cars to some trains to alleviate concerns about overcrowding and sought to assure riders they were listening.

LIRR interim president Catherine Rinaldi said the railroad has “already started to lengthen our busiest trains and will continue to monitor ridership patterns under the new schedule to see what future adjustments may be necessary.”
...

I completely get the idea that this is a massive schedule change that will require a bit of trial and error in order to get it right.

And I even get the concept of eliminating 12-car trains. With two Manhattan terminals, ridership should eventually spread out a bit and there won't be the same demand for 12 cars from Penn when many of those passengers will now board at Grand Central

What I experienced last night, however, really made me wonder. The 5:36 PM Grand Central to West Hempstead was 10 cars. Other than Jamaica, the train doesn't make a single stop at a station with 10 (or even 8!) car platform. Front six cars for Kew Gardens, Saint Albans and West Hempstead. Rear four cars for Westwood through Hempstead Gardens. The train was quite empty in the front half leaving GCT and as it left Jamaica heading east was quite empty in the first 5 cars, crowded with standees in car 6 (closest to the stairs at St. Albans) and then lightly crowded in 7 through 10 (most three and two seaters had only a single passenger). It was pretty shocking to see the under-utilized capacity at the peak of rush hour -- especially knowing they have 8-car trains going out packed on more heavily utilized lines.

CTG - From your report the LIRR also should look to REDUCE the amount of cars on less-utilized trains. Grand Central to West Hempstead Train #1762 should be assigned six cars for stations served and ridership level. Those extra four MU cars can be added to another train consist(s) elsewhere to alleviate standee problems.

For the record - West Hempstead Branch Train #1762
Leave Grand Central 5:36 PM; Kew Gardens 5:53 PM; Arrive/leave Jamaica 5:56/5:57 PM; St. Albans 6:03 PM
Stops Westwood, Malverne, Lakeview, Hempstead Gardens - Arrive West Hempstead 6:24 PM

1100 MU cars sounds like a large number - with a systemwide schedule re-write of this magnitude with many trains being added to the timetable - the LIRR needs to have maximum utilization of the MU car fleet... There is a finite number of cars available on any given day for service...MACTRAXX

That West Hempstead ten-car train probably is used on other runs before or after that one that require ten cars. Assuming that's the case, they could only have six cars open, maybe the front four cars closed to public so effectively it would be a six-car train.

That's a common practice on Metro-North where eight car trains are commonly run at mid-day with only the middle four cars open because of the light passenger load.

H-E: Your mention is "the other side of the coin" in the subject of LIRR car consist numbers.
Where else does that particular set of equipment go to other than representing Train #1762?
I recall that the LIRR policy is not to close any cars during weekday peak hours...MACTRAXX