Potential MBTA Southern NH Service

The property line is the MA/NH state line. The proposed stations are New Hampshire's proposed stations, not the MBTA's. Not sure why the stations are limited to those 4 locations but they seem to make some reasonable sense. I'm not sure why Merrimack wasn't included, but there has to be a decision on scope and cost at some point. I'd be curious if maybe Merrimack would be station #5 but they didn't want to add too much more up-front cost?

That's not to say a Merrimack station couldn't be built in the future. The MBTA restored service to Worcester with a large gap between Worcester and Framingham in the mid '90s. Within 10 years they had constructed 4 stations in between.

I'm not sure why Merrimack wasn't included, but there has to be a decision on scope and cost at some point. I'd be curious if maybe Merrimack would be station #5 but they didn't want to add too much more up-front cost?

I found this strange as well because Amtrak's plans do call for a station in Merrimack, and it wouldn't make sense to have Inter-City Amtrak service stop there and not MBTA Commuter Rail service, but I think that if/when Amtrak eventually does build the station the MBTA will start stopping there too, who knows, maybe that's the plan.

At Pheasant lane Mall the MA/NH state line is at the southernmost wall of the mall building, where the former Sears Roebuck and J.C. Penney stores were. This was deliberately planned so all of the stores would be in New Hampshire with no sales tax.

So the parking lots south of the mall building are in Mass. Conceivably the entire commuter rail station at the border could be built in Mass.

Funding sources also are going to play a major role in whether to go with Amtrak's proposal or the commuter approach or both (or more strictly intercity or commuter). There is significant intercity rail funding in the IIJA which offers a compelling reason to pursue Amtrak's proposal or pursue both simultaneously. The IIJA potential funding is a large reason why MassDOT decided to go with Amtrak for their Western Mass East-West potential service and keep the T out of it (and because they didn't feel the service would qualify for FTA managed transit funds.)

NHDOT would have to go after the intercity funding or start up an organization like NNEPRA to apply to the FRA for the corridor funding and work to develop the corridor with Amtrak (or another operator - theoretically MBTA/Keolis could be a contracted operator for an intercity service but if its intercity service Amtrak is likely the logical choice.) MBTA goes after commuter rail transit funding with is administered by the FTA so it's really a totally separate effort - there is also money in the IIJA for transit but keep in mind that commuter rail funding has stricter cost-benefit qualifications and service parameters - service extension up to Concord may not qualify for such funding from transit but may from intercity for example.

As far as frequencies and fares on an Amtrak service its all about what the state wants to pay and wants for farebox recovery and how much equipment is available. The Hartford Line service in Connecticut (CTrail/Amtrak) is an intercity rail feeder service that charges commuter level fares...the state just pays a higher subsidy to Amtrak to allow for that (and pays more money to its contracted operator for the CTrail trains). It doesn't have to be the MBTA in order to pay commuter like fixed fares. I think the HL model actually could make some sense here. You could develop the core service with Amtrak and then contract with MBTA to add some additional frequencies (the whole route to Concord or just extra frequencies to Manchester) and have them work off a combined integrated schedule rather than having competitive trains running at the same time.

So the parking lots south of the mall building are in Mass. Conceivably the entire commuter rail station at the border could be built in Mass.

According to Page 24 of the "NH Capitol Corridor Public Info Meeting (11/17/21)" PowerPoint (https://www.nh.gov/dot/projects/nashuam ... 172021.pdf), the parking lot will be in Tyngsborough, MA, but the station itself will be in Nashua, NH, it is also going to be a shared lot, although I don't believe any of this is final as of yet so the plan could change.

I do know the Amtrak station in Texarkana straddles the TX/AR border, but another oddity is Suffern, NY
in which the station and yard is in NY State, but 100% NJT owned and operated, basically NJ state property
in another state.

HB 1432 UPDATE: Apparently, yesterday April 26th, the committee report on HB 1432 was "Ought to Pass with Amendment # 2022-1837s, 4/28/2022" with a 5-0 vote. Current listed status is "CONSENT CALENDAR REPORT FILED".
(https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_s ... &inflect=2)
Does the 4/28/2022 date imply that the senate will vote on it tomorrow?
- Thanks

Very interesting amendment, and the testimony on 4/22/22. Amendment seems to make this bill only prohibit spending on this particular CR project.

unless approved by the legislature, no state funds shall be appropriated or expended for the project named Nashua-Manchester-Concord, project number 40818 in the 2019-2028 Ten Year Transportation Improvement Plan.

Couple of people talk about some study that will be completed this year, so they changed the effective date to 1/1/2023. Isn't that the study that they were trying to kill by passing this bill? Or are they now okay with studying it but want to kill design & construction?

Testimony by Patrick Herlihy, NHDOT Director of Rail and Transit confuses me.

Rep. Warden says

Construction costs have skyrocketed since the cost estimate from 2019 and previous estimates have now become invalid.

So even if this bill passes, provided this new amendment remains in the bill, it sounds like the state would only be prohibited from spending state money on an MBTA service expansion to Manchester. Technically, there is nothing in the wording of the amendment that would prohibit the state from spending money to bring Amtrak to Nashua, Manchester, and Concord per the Connect US plan. Is this true?

They added the phrase

unless approved by the legislature

, I think so that it didn't have to go back to some capital committee for approval. I think they are letting the study go forward, and yup I guess other projects like Amtrak are no longer specifically prohibited. I think they basically rubber stamped what the NHDOT guy said...

Thank goodness it is a short bill. Legislatures need to add a GIT interface so you could easily compare the wording before & after the amendment. It's like a word problem in math instead of using mathematical symbols.

[edited removing incorrekt info] ... and MBTA has rights to Concord, right?

I'm incorrect; Amtrak has special rights everywhere in the national train system. Including payments based on incremental costs, passenger train preference, and condemnation rights (eminent domain).

This is what it says under HB 1432,

This bill prohibits the department of transportation from utilizing state funds for the planning, construction, operation, or management of new passenger rail projects. The amendment specifies that state
funds would need to be approved by the legislature for rail projects and the effective date was changed
to January 1, 2023.

So the first sentence leads me to believe that all state funds are barred from being spent on any potential passenger rail projects, but the second sentence leads me to believe that state funds could be spent on passenger rail projects but would need to be approved by a legislature first. I am confused too.

Couple of people talk about some study that will be completed this year, so they changed the effective date to 1/1/2023. Isn't that the study that they were trying to kill by passing this bill?

This is the study they are clearly going after: https://www.nh.gov/dot/projects/nashuam ... /index.htm

Thank goodness it is a short bill.

What does this mean for the bill?

Amtrak has special rights everywhere in the national train system. Including payments based on incremental costs, passenger train preference, and condemnation rights (eminent domain).

So this means that they could run passenger service on the New Hampshire Main route even if the bill passes?

Amtrak has rights but would require subsidies from the state in order to move ahead with a project - seems to me this likely prohibits any spending on rail whatsoever.

UPDATE: HB 1432 has PASSED the senate, looks like its the end for this project, and yet another win for the anti-rail crowd.
https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_s ... &inflect=2