Amtrak/LIRR Moynihan Train Hall

JamesRR wrote:I'm curious as to how big a deal will be made when it opens. Press conference? Brochures? It is a huge space that rivals the EXIT concourse in scale.

Governor Cuomo will definitely hold a press conference -- it is his style. As for brochures, I doubt it. I don't think there were any for the Second Avenue Subway and that was definitely a bigger deal.

In other news, Vornado expects to close on the Moynihan Station Deal this quarter (sorry, no link). In real estate speak that means take possession. It makes me wonder what the design makes of the Postal Platform. Is there any information on what will happen to it? I have studied the current track layout and I do no see how it could be accessed from the existing Hudson River Tunnels. It appears that it will be easily accessible from the new tunnels if they get built. Anyone know what the current planning is? It would not surprise me if Vornado does not make it accessible from the new train hall, then 10 years later the tunnels get finally built and then someone discovers that there is this platform that could be used only if the appropriate planning had been made many years ago and then it takes another 10 years of planing and redoing to just make that platform accessible and usable by passengers.

An Op-Ed, "Critic's Notebook" appeared in the Arts section.of Monday's Times:

http://nytimes.com/2017/04/30/arts/desi ... ll-he.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fair Use:

..There is a history of politics trumping responsible decision-making when it comes to regional infrastructure. After 9/11, George E. Pataki, New York’s former Republican governor, steered plans for rebuilding the World Trade Center in the wrong direction to suit his own White House dreams. Given the choice to do the right thing for Lower Manhattan or do something quickly, he repeatedly chose short-term gain over long-term vision.

Some years later, new tunnels didn’t serve Governor Christie’s political ambition. He was eyeing the White House, too. Tunnels were costly and took too long to build; so instead he squandered tunnel money on highways. Those tunnels would nearly be built by now, had he stuck to the plan. Like Mr. Pataki, Mr. Christie ended up a joke candidate, and the public, a big loser.

Now it seems to be Mr. Cuomo’s turn...

Obviously, an Architecture critic is more concerned with "what's on top" than down below (where's the Photo-Op for the Pol?). We here have become painfully aware that "down below" must come first.

You could say that the "higgling and piggling" over Penn started during 1963 when the wrecking ball took its first swing. As I noted earlier, it could well end with a Spike Lee docudrama "When the Tunnels Flood".

By contrast, Vienna has a quite new Central Station (Hauptbahnhof) accessed by a five klick tunnel, which eliminated a backup move by trains from the West. One wonders how much "higgling and piggling" was associated with that project? A tourist such as myself, will never know.

EuroStar wrote:As for brochures, I doubt it. I don't think there were any for the Second Avenue Subway and that was definitely a bigger deal.

For what it's worth, there were print brochures for the Second Ave. Subway opening, and also Vignelli-design-style subway maps created for it.

EuroStar wrote:

JamesRR wrote:I'm curious as to how big a deal will be made when it opens. Press conference? Brochures? It is a huge space that rivals the EXIT concourse in scale.

Governor Cuomo will definitely hold a press conference -- it is his style. As for brochures, I doubt it. I don't think there were any for the Second Avenue Subway and that was definitely a bigger deal.

There were 2 Ave Subway maps printed that celebrated the line's opening. When NJT opened their 7 Ave Concourse, they handed out brochures, too. Same for Grand Central North. I imagine they'll want to highlight the benefits of the new access points.

It's a pity that the New York Times piece furnished by Mr. Norman in his post perpetuates the well-worn misstatement about the "new passenger rail tunnels . . . connecting to Pennsylvania Station"; it's not clear whether the writer shared that impression or was simply thinking about passenger access between the two stations, but some people apparently think that if the ARC tunnels had been built they would provide significant relief to Penn Station and permit long-term rehab to the old tunnels. It's been pointed out elsewhere that if the ARC tunnels had been built or were under construction it would be virtually impossible to get funding for the Gateway tunnels.

ARC was flawed; the tunnels would be solely used by NJT and terminating at a new station some 100 ft underground (think London or, if anyone's been there, Moscow).

But that Chris took that State loot and spent it on highways (think photo-ops) was criminal. No wonder his political career is done for - lucky he's not on the wrong side of those things that slam.

Why Gateway wasn't ready to go when Chris killed ARC escapes me, but then Andy wants his photo-ops to help him down the Corridor to 1600.

As the boss of the forum has said, the ARC is a forbidden topic, so stay off it, especially if you do not actually go through Penn on a daily basis.

I never so any of the brochures, but then again I was not looking for any. What was in them?

But, Tony Stark Needs the ARC reactor to live.

"But that Chris took that State loot and spent it on highways (think photo-ops) was criminal."

Look, I think ARC is vastly preferable to what we have now and what seem to be stuck with for the forseeable future (i.e., nothing), but to call it "criminal" is a little much. For those of you in Peoria who are wondering what redundant new highways NJ has, be advised, they are vague on purpose. The "highways" refers to preventing the Pulaski Skyway from literally falling down. Had it done so, I'm sure we'd be hearing about how that was also criminal.

I've got to redo the Amtrak Guidelines post, but ARC, as noted above, has gone the way of Turboliners in our forums, i.e. not to be relitigated. Let's move on.

Trump's Manhattan developer friends label Penn Station's improvement their number one priority.

Roth’s Vornado Realty Trust is the largest property owner surrounding the crumbling rail hub. Its One and Two Penn Plaza towers sit atop the facility, which is owned by Amtrak and used by New Jersey Transit, the Long Island Rail Road and city subways. Madison Square Garden, the arena that covers much of the rest of the station, is owned by yet another constituency -- the Dolan family.

Roth, 75, Vornado’s chairman and chief executive officer, has described improving the area as the real-estate investment trust’s “Big Kahuna.’’ The core challenge is that Amtrak, the national passenger railroad, lacks billions to fix the squalid warren of overcrowded passages, stairways and platforms, the result of a decision more than a half-century ago to tear down the original station, a Beaux-Arts landmark.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/arti ... ture-czars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Steven Roth is one of Trump's key infrastructure program advisors. Richard LeFrak is another.

The Garden(aka the Dolans)need to stop being the "squatter" on top of Penn Station, while it's years away before MSG needs to
vacate the "air rights" over Penn,the sooner they leave,then Penn can be made better than the current conditions allow.
That might allow removal of the support columns pile driven thru the platforms that now hold up an outdated venue
with the bad memories attached to it.

Unfortunately I do not see the Garden moving any time soon as the public is unlikely to swallow the cost of paying off the current owners. The most we can hope is for the theater under the main Garden to be removed. That would actually allow for a decent amount of light and free quite a bit of space for reconfiguration of the concourses. For reasons beyond my knowledge though, the proposed redesign (covering existing Penn and the post office) that won Cuomo's competition does not include the removal of the theater.

Steve Roth's building was responsible for the recent sewage shower. I won't say that the Dolans and/or Roths can't be bought out of their air rights, because both are businessmen when there's money on the table; but if they are, you can be sure that they will get the better side of the bargain.

It won't be good optics if the President's friends get paid billions to vacate the space at the cost of the American taxpayer. A deal like that will have to wait until after the 2020 election or after the President's reputation is so thoroughly soiled that it won't matter. Steve Roth is already 75, so it can't wait too long.

It's interesting that big cities will happily build mega-money sports arenas for 10 games a year, but will not build mega-money train stations for 300,000 people PER FREAKING DAY. MSG holds 20,000 people, Cowboy Stadium holds 100,000 (I think that's the largest). Why is Amtrak on the hook for this money when New York City/State gets all the benefit?