Why are trains afraid of the snow now?

I didn't know trains have feelings?

It's just a little snow...Interesting read. http://historicpelham.blogspot.com/2014 ... elham.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bostontrainguy wrote:At this point (Spring!) I have to ask . . . why is it that Amtrak can't handle the snow?

In the good old days, people used to flock to the train whenever there was bad weather that grounded the airlines. Blizzard coming? Take the train.

Passengers eventually got home and the train was the big hero. Why is it today that Amtrak closes down just as quickly as the airlines? What happened to that edge that the railroads definitely had over the airlines years ago?

This is now common on host railroads or Amtrak owned rights-of-way so it's not the host railroads fault. Anyone have any idea?

Snow is a question of manpower.

Back in the day, railroads had thousands upon thousand of MofW employees to man shovels and brooms to keep switches operating or get them operating very quickly after they are discovered inoperative. The carrier I hired out on in the early 1950 had employment of over 50K people. Today that carrier is a part of CSX and the entirety of CSX employs about 30K.

Second, back in the day, MofW employees normally lived within walking distance of their headquarters, they didn't have to rely on state highway departments to open up roads so they can drive 50 miles to get to their headquarters to pick up their company truck to drive another 50 miles or more to get to the trouble spot.

Third expectations of the 21st Century are entirely different than they were in the middle of the 20th Century. Beyond that we always remember things from our childhoods more favorably than we do things from the present, that is just human nature - we value the time in our lives when we had all the answers (because we didn't know any of life's questions.)

Trains aren't afraid of snow, but railroads are afraid of all the money-grubbing lawyers.

Off topic, but this is for ebtmikado.

YES! Thank you.

chuchubob wrote:Off topic, but this is for ebtmikado.

That's an avatar icon for 'ya!

Now back to the regular topic...

"Afraid" is the word I used when talking to a VRE rep a few years ago, so this topic grabbed my attention. The Spotsylvania station was new, and the rep asked how I liked it. I said it was OK, but bike and pedestrian access were poor, and I mentioned that I looked forward to retiring up north (I was born in New York) where public transportation doesn't collapse with a few inches of snow. The VRE rep said it's not that VRE can't run in the snow, it's a safety issue. "Oh, you're afraid to run," I replied.

VRE talks about safety for its passengers when there's snow and then leaves many of them with no way to get to work except driving.

A few months later, VRE canceled all service because of the "winter storm." I sent my brother in Massachusetts a photo of the electronic sign at Fredericksburg that morning (I was able to ride Amtrak to work). The sky was cloudy, that's all. It wasn't snowing. By the end of the day there was about 5 inches of snow. It doesn't take a blizzard to shut down some passenger rail operations.

Literalman wrote:"Afraid" is the word I used when talking to a VRE rep a few years ago, so this topic grabbed my attention. The Spotsylvania station was new, and the rep asked how I liked it. I said it was OK, but bike and pedestrian access were poor, and I mentioned that I looked forward to retiring up north (I was born in New York) where public transportation doesn't collapse with a few inches of snow. The VRE rep said it's not that VRE can't run in the snow, it's a safety issue. "Oh, you're afraid to run," I replied.

VRE talks about safety for its passengers when there's snow and then leaves many of them with no way to get to work except driving.

A few months later, VRE canceled all service because of the "winter storm." I sent my brother in Massachusetts a photo of the electronic sign at Fredericksburg that morning (I was able to ride Amtrak to work). The sky was cloudy, that's all. It wasn't snowing. By the end of the day there was about 5 inches of snow. It doesn't take a blizzard to shut down some passenger rail operations.

I think you're leaving out a few things. Although many of the above statements are true (lawyers, manpower issues etc), we are also looking at the fact that passengers themselves are increasingly staying home. Now, this may be a chicken and the egg case but a lot of governments are declaring state of emergencies during inclement weather. The actual prohibit driving, which makes it difficult to get to the train station.

As for safety, it can indeed be a safety issue but it is also a customer relations issue..particularly if the host won't cooperate. Without naming said host, I was on a conference call. They were planning to run this particular train until the Superintendent of one the divisions it passed through informed everyone the host railroad had granted permission to operate the train. However, they also stated they would would not be in the position render assistance if things went south. The SUPT wanted to know what the back up plan would be if the train was trapped by trees, downed wires, snow, switch failure and dead engine, particularly with buses being unavailable and roads being closed.

They decided to annul the train. Could it have run? Probably, but if the engine took a bath or a tree came down, you could have another "Cardinal in the woods" situation or another 40 hour late Empire Builder...on a twitter feed to boot.

About two-thirds of VRE passengers (according to the annual VRE survey) are government employees (including military), who typically get paid snow days. The rest of us are not. I've heard complaints from other private-sector employees who don't like using vacation pay or driving to work in the snow just because the federal employees get the day off. VRE claims something like 10,000 one-way weekday passengers, which equates to more than 3,000 private-sector employees. Canceling all trains and saying it's because of a winter storm when it's merely cloudy outside doesn't cut it with us.

"The past always looks better than it was. It's only pleasant because it isn't here."

Finley Peter Dunne

Literalman wrote:About two-thirds of VRE passengers (according to the annual VRE survey) are government employees (including military), who typically get paid snow days. The rest of us are not. I've heard complaints from other private-sector employees who don't like using vacation pay or driving to work in the snow just because the federal employees get the day off. VRE claims something like 10,000 one-way weekday passengers, which equates to more than 3,000 private-sector employees. Canceling all trains and saying it's because of a winter storm when it's merely cloudy outside doesn't cut it with us.

Cloudy at 7AM and over a foot of snow at 3 PM. When you are having to make plans at 2 or 3 AM the best you can do is go on the information you have. So you run everything into the 'Big City' - now, in the afternoon you can't run anything out. What have you accomplished?

I was a child of the 50's & 60's. During HS we got 1 count it ONE snow day in the duration of my 3 years of HS. The only reason that snow day got declared was that the Superintendent of Schools had his car slide off his driveway and into a ditch - with that he figured the buses might have some problems.

Second, when you are the only one in the snow you can make all kinds of driving mistakes without damaging yourself or anyone else. When you are on the highways in today's traffic in the snow and ice, you have vehicles immediately surrounding your vehicle on all sides - one mistake on your or their part and you are all into each other.

The more traffic - vehicular or pedestrian - the more potential for accidental injury for all concerned. The 'good old days' are gone and will never return. What you knew about dealing with the weather from 10 - 20 -30 years ago is history and in today's world we learn nothing from history, therefore we repeat it.