Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

I spent a little time in the Dome car on Tuesday heading to Portland; I was amazed at how much the backl end of the locomotive bounced and swayed, which was not felt at all in the Dome car. The view was very nice; and at the time I was up there, the car was comfortably full ( still a few empty seats here and there.) I noticed anumber of folks arriving and/or departing during the time I was there; What a great feature, having that car for a month. Afterwards,
I talked to several folks in the coach and they were not aware of the dome car being part of the consist. I encouraged them to check it out for the great (and very different) view. I hope it returns, as did a lot of the passengers in the upper level that I spoke with while I was there.

gokeefe wrote:

Rockingham Racer wrote:Depends on how fast the engineer can run.

You've been here long enough so you probably know but for those who don't ... the engineer does not changes ends under the current procedure he (or she ... ) stays in the leading end of the train and one of the conductors rides in the tail end as it backs down the track from the Portland station. The conductor riding in the rear verifies all signals clear onto the Freight Main Line and the engineer is then able to simply flip a couple of levers and roll forward through the switch once it is aligned (which doesn't seem to take long at all).

The move is still problematic for its own reasons especially as the schedule of frequencies for passenger trains increases.

You know, I didn't think about that when I wrote it. If the engineer changes ends at the station, then s/he would have to change ends a second time on the FML to go up to Brunswick. Dumb 'ole me!!

MEC407 wrote:

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:And all this despite not having any clue whether their next station site is even going to stay on the Mountain stub or move to the mainline.

They've been quite clear about the station staying at Thompson's Point. They did a study, looked at two or three other locations, and TP came out on top. The study report was posted either here or in the Portland passenger stations thread.

I agree that any station upgrading or replacement will take place at Thompson's Point; one of the things that has kept it on the back burner is the somewhat fluid shape of the TP development itself: 5 years in and, while the existing buildings have been rehabbed extensively, not one new building has been built. The last plans I saw called for the "events center" (used to be the new arena for the Red Claws) and the parking garage (key for any PTC replacement as they're probably going to use part of the existing lot for any new station) being built on what is currently the Suburban Propane property. The Planning Board has already approved the move of Suburban Propane to the Lucas Tree land slush fund on Riverside St. (bunch of industrial property the city got from Lucas and have used for industrial relocation), but I haven't seen much activity there yet.

Of course, the other key sticking point for any PTC replacement or substantial upgrade is going to be the city building it; they're stymied right now because they don't think they can afford to send a major school repair bond issue to the voters, so I don't think they'll be ready to send out a bond for a train station any time soon. OTOH, the Portland City Council has a long history of finding "ways" to issue bonds without voter approval....

I think the new Portland Station is an obvious candidate for a TIGER grant or state transportation bond funding. I think until those two options are exhausted municipal bonds will be a last resort.

As far as funding the new station is concerned, two things to ponder: 1) presumably Concord Coach (who own the existing station) will want to be in the new one and will lease space in it, and that lease money will help pay down the construction bond; 2) there has been talk of getting Greyhound to leave their existing (and to be frank, pitiful) station at the corner of Congress and Saint John, and come over to Thompson's Point, creating even more of a true transportation hub — they'd be leasing space too, helping to pay down the bond even more quickly.

A third possibility is that the City of Portland, as owner of the new station, could add a $1 facility fee to every train and bus ticket arriving at or departing from POR. That, too, would get the bond paid off more quickly. Airports do that all the time. I think Portland even did something like that to pay for the Merrill Auditorium renovation.

Concord Coach is an odd company. While they run a very good service (no comparison to Greyhound), they build their stations (or use stores, gas stations for smaller stops) outside of the centers of the towns they serve, and not conveniently so either (witness PTC, Bath, Augusta, Wiscasset, Camden, Bangor). You need a car to get to town from any of those stations. And some of those places also have Greyhound/others in a different place (PTC, Augusta, Bangor).

So I wouldn't rely on Concord Coach doing any rational thing (that we can see) with regards to stations.

I do not think Concord Coach will relocate to the new station. That's part of the reason why I think the pedestrian bridge over the tracks is so likely to get built as envisioned. Rail will be on one side and bus on the other. Concord Coach has every reason to keep their current location not the least of which is the favorable configuration for their buses and the likely lower cost of ownership (with parking revenues) vs. the new station with lease costs and no parking revenues. I would guess their station in Portland operates close to breakeven as a facility without the benefit of any support from the bus fares.

In my mind the real question becomes whether or not they can continue to operate that facility without the benefit of $30,000+ in monthly rent from NNEPRA.

As I departed Portland in the dome car on 9/15th, I noticed a single story building
across the tracks from the PTC, which appeared that it could be a garage type
building, although I could not see the end, where the overhead doors might be,
but there was a Concord Coach bus backed up to the building. Anyone know if'
the CC owns that property? Seems like they must have some sort of maintenance
facility in Portland somewhere. Thanks..

Dick H wrote:Seems like they must have some sort of maintenance
facility in Portland somewhere.

They do, but it's on the same side of the tracks as the station. Here's the Google Street View: station on the left, bus garage on the right:

gokeefe wrote:I do not think Concord Coach will relocate to the new station. That's part of the reason why I think the pedestrian bridge over the tracks is so likely to get built as envisioned. Rail will be on one side and bus on the other. Concord Coach has every reason to keep their current location not the least of which is the favorable configuration for their buses and the likely lower cost of ownership (with parking revenues) vs. the new station with lease costs and no parking revenues. I would guess their station in Portland operates close to breakeven as a facility without the benefit of any support from the bus fares.

In my mind the real question becomes whether or not they can continue to operate that facility without the benefit of $30,000+ in monthly rent from NNEPRA.

I don't know if things have changed recently, but the last plans I saw didn't leave room for a train station south of the tracks; the entire Suburban Propane parcel, which really takes up all the track frontage on the south side, is slated for the arena and garage AFAIK. My impression is that any new station will go in the existing parking lot near the walkway to the platform.

That's very interesting to read. I hadn't realized they were looking at that particular configuration.

These are from the plans the city had available in January 2014. I know they've changed at least slightly - they are no longer going to do any new construction on the "Brick South" building itself - but I haven't been in to the planning office to see what else may have changed.

Site overview including the pedestrian walkway over the tracks: Elevation of the garage and arena (note the current brick office building for Suburban Propane is proposed to be saved and turned into the ticket office):

That's very interesting that they're considering reuse of the Suburban Propane building. Up close it looks to me very much like a former railroad building. I would like to know what function if any this building served for the Portland & Ogdensburg if it was in fact owned by them.

Only in Maine could the solution to the loss of a 50 year old historic building (Union Station) be to reuse one that was almost half a century older almost a century later ...

Just to be clear, the intent as I understand it is for the current Suburban Propane building to be the ticket office for the arena, not for the trains.

Ah! Thanks. Still interesting nonetheless that they intend to save it. So is it a confirmed P&O building?