4775 Tellier Road, Palmyra NY, and CSX

NYCRRson wrote:Maybe the railroad company offered to buy the house and the owner refused, or held out for "big bucks" and the railroad just decided to expand their 2 track mainline to a 4 track mainline right near this existing house ?

Cheers, Kevin.

Since it is inside the curve, RR could have decided that there's small slim chance of house being demolished by derailment. With that curve, majority of cars would spill toward to outside of curve.

This house I wouldn't worry about. but the other house on Quaker Rd is on the outside of curve... Eastbound could roll over and down the embankment. The house is about 100' or so but way below the trackside. The derailment cars would not have any problem reaching that house.

Bringing down a two story building that close is very difficult to do without at least a little debris spread. If CSX was smart (no comment), they would probably have not just a flagman on site, but a track foreman to take at least Track 2 out of service while the building is pulled down, and to minimize track closure time they might even require the contractor to place a debris mat over the track to prevent damage and quickly remove any debris that ends up where it doesn't belong. That will require coordination with the foreman and verification of track condition after the deed is done. Add flagman, foreman (and maybe the local I&R man) and train delay costs over a couple days, as well as engineering department and legal department time spent on the project and I'd say $8900 is dirt cheap.

Schumer does some good things, but he can't keep his mouth shut even when he doesn't understand what he's talking about. He has no place telling a RR that they're charging too much for something like this and CSX is well within their rights to charge for it. He just wants his name in the paper. And what happens if CSX does reduce the charge? Then they've established a precedent for all future interactions with local governments, and maybe not just for them either. And what if a board springs off the building as it's pulled down and flies through the window of a passing Amtrak train if they didn't provide adequate protection? Does anyone think Big Chuck would give CSX a break on their responsibility for safe passage of trains? He'd be on the news for a week pressing FRA to do a full investigation of RR practices and calling for huge fines and new 240 rules at the very least.

Dumb question maybe, but why not just burn the darn thing ? Or does that just lead to an unwanted collapse ?

sd80mac wrote:

NYCRRson wrote:Maybe the railroad company offered to buy the house and the owner refused, or held out for "big bucks" and the railroad just decided to expand their 2 track mainline to a 4 track mainline right near this existing house ?

Cheers, Kevin.

Since it is inside the curve, RR could have decided that there's small slim chance of house being demolished by derailment. With that curve, majority of cars would spill toward to outside of curve.

This house I wouldn't worry about. but the other house on Quaker Rd is on the outside of curve... Eastbound could roll over and down the embankment. The house is about 100' or so but way below the trackside. The derailment cars would not have any problem reaching that house.

Correct about that Quaker Rd crossing house, but don't forget when a train derails at speed, they will accordion and stack up both sides of the tracks. Remember the mountain of cars piled up at CP 356 just East of Wayneport Rd about 15 yrs ago ?

In regard to Flat-Wheeler's question, I talked to a fireman friend of mine a short while ago about burning old houses for practice. There are now so many regulations in place about this, including removing anything with asbestos such as shingles or siding that it is no longer worth the trouble in most cases.

Here's a link to story and excellent footage from WROC-TV8 that appeared on 4/11:

http://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/loca ... se-of-cost" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Currently there is a statewide burn ban which includes controlled burns by fire departments. Also, the intense radiant heat created by burning it would impinge on any trains passing on either track; not good.

Furthermore, the structure would collapse during the burn and likely foul the tracks. At least, the fire department would have to plan for such a collapse and notify CSX in advance, which gets us back to the flagger/foreman discussion. And the regulations that O&W mentioned are not trivial.

I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion. A skilled backhoe operator should be able to take the building down, pulling away from the tracks, and avoid any debris falling onto the track. The prudent thing would be to have a CSX flagman there, and do the work when nothing is approaching. IF something goes wrong the flag can notify the dispatcher, but I really think the machine can pull the structure away from the track as the work progresses with no issue whatever.

Flat-Wheeler wrote:

sd80mac wrote:Since it is inside the curve, RR could have decided that there's small slim chance of house being demolished by derailment. With that curve, majority of cars would spill toward to outside of curve.

This house I wouldn't worry about. but the other house on Quaker Rd is on the outside of curve... Eastbound could roll over and down the embankment. The house is about 100' or so but way below the trackside. The derailment cars would not have any problem reaching that house.

Correct about that Quaker Rd crossing house, but don't forget when a train derails at speed, they will accordion and stack up both sides of the tracks. Remember the mountain of cars piled up at CP 356 just East of Wayneport Rd about 15 yrs ago ?

That would be true if it's straightway track. The Quaker RD crossing is on curve. and that house is outside of the curve. the weight and physic would have train spill toward to outside of the curve. Since it's on deep embankment, there wouldn't be any cars pushing other cars toward to inside.

pile-up at 356 in 15 yrs ago.. that would be around 2001.. I knew of none. I have been railfanning there since 1994. Basically it was my stomping area to begin with. I believe that you meant one of 2 derailments which took down signal bridge - one at CP 349 and another one somewhere in Newark along Bloom Rd I would assume CP 340, since it's signal bridge and it has to be crossover at there which I never saw the crossover myself. Conrail never bother replace that signal bridge at that spot. And I assume that they didn't bother to replace crossover at there either.

CP 349 would be the most recently pile-up coal train. CP340 (or MP 340) area is the probably you were thinking of since it happened few years after I started railfanning again in 94. Both pile-up were on straightway tracks which have accordion effect

No, I think he means CP-356 which is where the West Shore tied into the main line up until (I think) the late 1980s. That means the derailment must have been before 356 was retired?

My understanding is that when the Shore was taken out of service one summer (1987?) for a major overhaul (CWR, re-signaling, etc.) they moved the connection to CP-359 and created Wayneport siding.

Not to stray too far off the discussion but I wanted to clarify the point and hopefully confirm my understanding.

BR&P wrote:I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion. A skilled backhoe operator should be able to take the building down, pulling away from the tracks, and avoid any debris falling onto the track. The prudent thing would be to have a CSX flagman there, and do the work when nothing is approaching. IF something goes wrong the flag can notify the dispatcher, but I really think the machine can pull the structure away from the track as the work progresses with no issue whatever.

Thank you! Common sense.

I think the issue is not with the methodology/ease or difficulty of removal, but rather the cost that CSX is charging the municipality for flagman coverage. I believe the cost was in the area of $8900 for what should be one day's work....seems a bit steep to me.

Surely somebody from the town has an old highway fusee stashed somewhere. A little 2AM hike, and by the time it's discovered, the "removal" is well under way. If CSX has to halt trains for a half hour while the cellar savers mop up, oh well. A whole lot easier on the town's budget than an $8900 flagman!

(Not that I'm advocating such action mind you! I'm just sayin'........... )

No, I took photos of a pile up east of Wayneport road at CP-356, that happened let's see... it must have been in like 1994 or 1995. There was still a brick relay house there, although abandoned and the windows broken out of it.

lvrr325 wrote:No, I took photos of a pile up east of Wayneport road at CP-356, that happened let's see... it must have been in like 1994 or 1995. There was still a brick relay house there, although abandoned and the windows broken out of it.

I would love to know more about it. I returned to railfanining in 1994. It might explain why the area was free of vegetation and trees. I could see whole way down to the curve, including brick bldg in east. Now I cant see curve from same spot.

PM me since this is not related to subject.