Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Getting the Albany critters to decide on anything is a pain,with Christe in political "HOT WATER" for "Bridgegate"
Trenton's critters have become a lost cause.

TrainPhotos wrote:If a tunnel went out tomorrow, we'd be in some very deep doodoo. You have one track out for the high speed upgrade project... Then with all of the NY metro area airports at full capacity, flying in would not offer an effective alternative. Also with the skyway partly closed and PABT at capacity, you then run out of options real fast. Here's to hoping those people in DC (and albany, and trenton) can put their heads on straight for a few minutes and get this fully funded ASAP...

JFK is far from being at full capacity. The Pulaski Skyway should open up by 2016.

^ The first priority has to be to get the National public and policymakers to focus on the direct, specific, named loss of connectivity, and the immediate jamming of the PABT and LGA.
I want lawmakers from every state to see that
1) If they have an pet Amtrak LD to NYP, it is specficially at risk of being cut out of NYP.
2) If their local airport has a flight to LGA, it is at serious risk of being displaced, delayed, or price-gouged as the value & demand for LGA skyrockets
3) That buses will displace just about everything else they treasure that passes through the Lincon, Holland, or over the GWB
4) That not EWR or JFK, not PATH or MNRR, and not ferries from NJ are really going to be adequate substitutes, and that a crippled NYC directly cripples every congressional district within the LGA perimeter (about 3/4 of the US population) and saps the whole economy.

Even existing flights to EWR may be less attractive to their constituents since getting from EWR to Manhattan will suddenly become more difficult with increased demand on the remaining ways of crossing the Hudson. (Getting from JFK to Manhattan isn't the most convenient transfer at the best of times, and it won't be the best of times.)

I hope that President Obama sees the Gateway Tunnels as part of a lasting domestic legacy, and treats them as such a priority. (We already know Uncle Joey is behind them!) The conservative Congress might have a harder time getting behind the initiative, but Speaker Boehner and Senator McConnell are getting some lobbying from conservative construction groups to take care of the rickety infrastructure around the country. Maybe they could make an agreement to cut back on state taxes for New Jersey and New York, if those two states dedicate money to Gateway?

The big ticket item in congress seems to be the TPP and whether it should be fast tracked. Infrastructure improvements have taken a back seat for now. There's no consensus on how to fund infrastructure projects though.

Arlington wrote:I think Amtrak needs to explicitly threaten that one-seat LD service to NYP from a lot of Replublican states would get the Katrina/Sunset treatment if Amtrak has a tunnel crisis.
Basically, if you can only run 6 trains an hour each way, that doesn't leave much room beyond Acela and NERs (which, as money-makers, would have first claim to, say, 3 slots per hour each way). As between NJT and LDs, I don't see how you justify running anything but the highest-capacity (bilevel) trains in the slots that remain.

The Cardinal, Carolinian, "Virginians", Crescent, & Silvers would all be cut back to Newark, PHL or WAS, and the Vermonter would only operate NYP-Vermont. Do that, and maybe then they can get the attention of more than just the New Jersey delegation.

I would suggest that the southern LDs could terminate at HOB if needed.

From Gregory Hotel, Brooklyn

Today's New York Times carries an article summarizing the need for the Gateway Tunnels, and further notes this represents Washington having to beg to the Local level to have a project funded:

http://nytimes.com/2015/05/08/nyregion/ ... nnels.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regarding Mr. Morris & Essex's earlier comment, The Times also has an Op-ed in which the author holds that the region could get along nicely without LGA:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/05/08/op ... se-it.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gilbert B Norman wrote:From Gregory Hotel, Brooklyn

...Regarding Mr. Morris & Essex's earlier comment, The Times also has an Op-ed in which the author holds that the region could get along nicely without LGA:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/05/08/op ... se-it.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While I don't disagree with Mr. Haikalis, he must be holding stock in the fixed-based operator at Stewart International!

Still though, New York could spend $1b on a new KSWF terminal, $1b on a major rebuild of the Newburgh-Beacon I-84 bridge, another $1b on a light rail line from here via here and here over the river to here and still save itself nearly $1b.

And then, it could throw the rest of that pocket change toward Gateway, to get things back on topic.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:

Arlington wrote:I think Amtrak needs to explicitly threaten that one-seat LD service to NYP from a lot of Replublican states would get the Katrina/Sunset treatment if Amtrak has a tunnel crisis.
Basically, if you can only run 6 trains an hour each way, that doesn't leave much room beyond Acela and NERs (which, as money-makers, would have first claim to, say, 3 slots per hour each way). As between NJT and LDs, I don't see how you justify running anything but the highest-capacity (bilevel) trains in the slots that remain.

The Cardinal, Carolinian, "Virginians", Crescent, & Silvers would all be cut back to Newark, PHL or WAS, and the Vermonter would only operate NYP-Vermont. Do that, and maybe then they can get the attention of more than just the New Jersey delegation.

I would suggest that the southern LDs could terminate at HOB if needed.

Maybe if there were a second waterfront track...

No way, no how is Amtrak terminating anything at HOB.
-It isn't an Amtrak station in either Arrow or on the website.
-It can't handle baggage.
-AMTK crews aren't qualified over HOB terminal track.
-There aren't any AMTK service facilities at HOB, particularly for LD equipment.
-If a tunnel closes, NJT will overfill HOB with its own trains and there won't be room for AMTK anyway.
-There aren't AMTK ticket agents or counters at HOB, nor QuikTrak machines currently. (This is minor, but still a problem.)

If Amtrak terminates anything on the other side of the Hudson due to tunnel failure, it'll be at Newark, with a temporary yard somewhere in the Harrison/Kearny area. Otherwise, I'd expect LDs to terminate at either Washington or Philadelphia, and transfer all of their northbound passengers to Regionals and Acelas.

mtuandrew wrote:No way, no how is Amtrak terminating anything at HOB.
-It isn't an Amtrak station in either Arrow or on the website.
-It can't handle baggage.
-AMTK crews aren't qualified over HOB terminal track.
-There aren't any AMTK service facilities at HOB, particularly for LD equipment.
-If a tunnel closes, NJT will overfill HOB with its own trains and there won't be room for AMTK anyway.
-There aren't AMTK ticket agents or counters at HOB, nor QuikTrak machines currently. (This is minor, but still a problem.)

If Amtrak terminates anything on the other side of the Hudson due to tunnel failure, it'll be at Newark, with a temporary yard somewhere in the Harrison/Kearny area. Otherwise, I'd expect LDs to terminate at either Washington or Philadelphia, and transfer all of their northbound passengers to Regionals and Acelas.

Or maybe make use of the oversized SEC transfer station, manhattan transfer style? Maybe NJT could put in some kind of shuttle service on the lower level? Put the protect on the pocket track? Just some thoughts from a non-railroader...

Again, no! I'm not a railroader either, but:

-SEC has no baggage service.
-SEC has no service facilities.
-SEC isn't in Arrow or on the website.
-SEC has no QuikTraks or AMTK ticket agents, as far as I know.
-NJT can run shuttles just as easily from NWK as from SEC.
-SEC has fewer tracks than NWK.

If a tunnel was shut down, I'd terminate nearly every Amtrak train at NWK and have NJT run Multilevel shuttles from NWK to NYP. Acelas could continue through, I suppose, and LDs perhaps, but everything else from Regionals to NJT's NEC expresses would terminate at NWK or HOB.

Well I hope those shuttles are going to 15 - 20 cars long then. With few exceptions the rush hour PJC expresses still run SRO with 12 car multi-level sets. How are you putting those 1,500 - 1,700 people on a shuttle with passengers from a Keystone or Regional?

Well, I hope they are 15-20 cars too, because there's really not much else one could do to flow enough people into and out of the City. For that matter, you still might have to make the single tunnel one-way-only during the morning and evening rushes, and kick the morning outbound/evening inbound passengers to PATH 33rd St.