One Seat Ride Between New York and Bay Head?

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Can someone explain to me why they do not do this with regular service?

I know there is no refueling facility at Bay Head, but why are they not doing the following: replace a pair of trains, one from Bay Head to Long Branch (train A) and one from Long Branch to NYP (train B) with one direct train from Bay Head to NYP making the same stops as the two trains, then have the set with the dual-mode do the same thing that the set currently on train B does all day long running on electric power and at the end of the day probably during late peak evening hour have the set head from NYP to Bay Head replacing a train that currently has a connection at Long Branch to Bay Head? Overnight they can figure out how to refuel the dual mode the same way they refuel these direct beach trains on the weekends. Given that this does not add a new train anywhere, one would hope that with the right shuffling of behind the scenes things such as crew assignments and train-set locations they can get this to be cost neutral.

This certainly is not direct service to Penn all day long, but because they are not creating a new train into Penn they do not need a new slot into Penn. In fact if they do this with couple of peak hour morning trains that might attract some new riders who are currently put off by the train change and the resulting 5 or so extra minutes in the schedule.

EuroStar wrote:Can someone explain to me why they do not do this with regular service?

I know there is no refueling facility at Bay Head, but why are they not doing the following: replace a pair of trains, one from Bay Head to Long Branch (train A) and one from Long Branch to NYP (train B) with one direct train from Bay Head to NYP making the same stops as the two trains, then have the set with the dual-mode do the same thing that the set currently on train B does all day long running on electric power and at the end of the day probably during late peak evening hour have the set head from NYP to Bay Head replacing a train that currently has a connection at Long Branch to Bay Head? Overnight they can figure out how to refuel the dual mode the same way they refuel these direct beach trains on the weekends. Given that this does not add a new train anywhere, one would hope that with the right shuffling of behind the scenes things such as crew assignments and train-set locations they can get this to be cost neutral.

This certainly is not direct service to Penn all day long, but because they are not creating a new train into Penn they do not need a new slot into Penn. In fact if they do this with couple of peak hour morning trains that might attract some new riders who are currently put off by the train change and the resulting 5 or so extra minutes in the schedule.

Personally I don't think the ridership would justify it south of Long Branch. Anywhere south of LB is looking at a minimum commute of 95 minutes each way on an express as it is. While there may be some that do that can't see that number being over 100 people RT per day.

Would I like to see it yes, but considering it's NJT after all A: it won't happen B: a lot of shuffling around to help out 100 or so people. Kinda like the RVL Midtown Direct Service. What a joke that is. Most of these things that get done are politically fueled. I.E. Weekend Service to Bay Street Montclair. If you want to see it happen contact your local politician. They've been big players in this RVL stint.

The money would be better served on the Main and Bergen Line (for an extra round trip, so that hundreds of people aren't forced to wait 90 minutes at the tail end of rush hour for the next train) but you won't see that happen anytime soon either. In fact it's almost time for me to buy a new car.

And since NJT has shown they don't care about my business, Mercedes will be more than glad to see me for another purchase. At least someone values my dollar.

A big part of the problem with CL service is that many CL trains are forced to do local duty on the inner-zone NEC, which kills running times. There really should be more South Amboy locals (to free Long Branch trains to run express), just as there should be rush-hour direct RVL service, but the tunnel slots just don't exist. Once we have new capacity under the Hudson, I think both become possible. Until then, neither will really be possible, and NJT will be stuck playing the same zero-sum slot game. Gubernatorial elections can't come soon enough.

35dtmrs92 wrote:A big part of the problem with CL service is that many CL trains are forced to do local duty on the inner-zone NEC, which kills running times. There really should be more South Amboy locals (to free Long Branch trains to run express), just as there should be rush-hour direct RVL service, but the tunnel slots just don't exist. Once we have new capacity under the Hudson, I think both become possible. Until then, neither will really be possible, and NJT will be stuck playing the same zero-sum slot game. Gubernatorial elections can't come soon enough.

Well there is Gateway, an Amtrak project unlike ARC which was mostly NJT.

Maybe a trip to Hoboken could be part of it's daily rotation.It could be fueled there.

Would it be totally unreasonable to have inbound people simply switch to local NEC train at rahway, or backtrack at newark penn? Surely this would help traffic patterns a bit especially how everything converges at newark? Could there be a fueling facility put in at sunnyside or does amtrak not want that? Surely there is space somewhere to the east of the main chunk of yard tracks within the baloon track's radius for such a facility?

Amtrak maintains a small fuel supply at Sunnyside for their switcher fleet,unless that was razed for a new running repair
shop for the Acela fleet,then they are using a fuel truck.
Permiting for a large fuel facilty in NYC limits will be wayy too much expensive for Amtrak,NJT,or even a shared use.
FDNY would not be happy as well,they are part of the permitting process!

Also, any fueling facility at Sunnyside would have to be paid for by NJT; might there be a political problem (like Trenton-Morrisville) with NJ spending money on a facility in a FOREIGN state?

ExCon90 wrote:Also, any fueling facility at Sunnyside would have to be paid for by NJT; might there be a political problem (like Trenton-Morrisville) with NJ spending money on a facility in a FOREIGN state?

Sounds like a problem manufactured by government. Back when it was all private companies, no such problems existed, except between railroad companies; and on what is now today's NJCL, the CNJ and PRR were disciplined enough to keep operations coordinated.

And with the shorter distance that diesel operations traverse on this line these days versus the former engine change at South Amboy, how would this be a problem for run-through ALP-45DP-hauled trains?

Hate to think of how provinciality would affect things should any of the Union Station proposals for NYC (all failed) had come to be built. There have been several over the late 19th/early 20th century.

Couldn't they just build a fueling facility in Bay Head?

There would be permitting issues there as well,too close to the coast and NIMBY issues

CentralValleyRail wrote: Personally I don't think the ridership would justify it south of Long Branch. Anywhere south of LB is looking at a minimum commute of 95 minutes each way on an express as it is. While there may be some that do that can't see that number being over 100 people RT per day.

If there are only 100 people per day going from south of Long Branch to Penn Station, where are all the other people going? Newark? Rahway? Are these trains running completely empty? I have not taken anything south of Long Branch in ages so I have no first hand observations.

jackintosh11 wrote:Couldn't they just build a fueling facility in Bay Head?

NIMBYs killed that a while ago as far as I know.

EuroStar wrote:

CentralValleyRail wrote: Personally I don't think the ridership would justify it south of Long Branch. Anywhere south of LB is looking at a minimum commute of 95 minutes each way on an express as it is. While there may be some that do that can't see that number being over 100 people RT per day.

If there are only 100 people per day going from south of Long Branch to Penn Station, where are all the other people going? Newark? Rahway? Are these trains running completely empty? I have not taken anything south of Long Branch in ages so I have no first hand observations.

I haven't either but this number was from a Monthly Pass Dest to Dest data log. Someone who works within told me this.