Reading/SEPTA Push-Pull Train

Hi all,

Looking for information on the old RDG/SEPTA 'Push-Pull' train before it was retired.

Specifically, what were the number series of the coaches used (Reading class PBt), and were they renumbered in SEPTA service?

Thanks in advance,

Mike Bartel

I'm pretty positive that they were retired and replaced with RDC's by the time SEPTA took over.

Mike@IHP wrote:Hi all,

Looking for information on the old RDG/SEPTA 'Push-Pull' train before it was retired.

Hello Mike,

Please note that SEPTA only owned the motive power and rolling stock; Conrail operated the trains under contract for SEPTA until the diesel services (except on the Newtown Branch) were discontinued on July 26, 1981. SEPTA did not directly operate its own railroad trains until January 1, 1983. The 1976-1983 chapter of SEPTA's history can be a little confusing.

Mike@IHP wrote:Specifically, what were the number series of the coaches used (Reading class PBt),

There was actually a larger pool of coaches designated for standard use on this train. Five - but not always the same five - were in revenue service on the push-pull consist. A sixth car provided a shop margin for routine maintenance without reducing the passenger capacity of the train.

According to the late John Pawson, this pool consisted of the following coaches:
1547 - 77 seats
2001 - 60 seats
2002 - 60 seats
2012 - 57 seats
2014 - 57 seats
2015 - 57 seats

Pawson once wrote that all of the above save for 1547 were delivered to the Reading in 1922 by Bethlehem Shipbuilders' Harlan and Hollingsworth factory in Wilmington, DE. Coach 1547 was also an H&H product, but delivered in 1927.

1547 was noticeably longer than the other cars, and displayed very close-together window spacing & smaller window size (akin to that on the electric MU cars) than the other locomotive-hauled coaches. I speculate that it was of a different class of coaches entirely than its usual companions in the consist.

Noted RDG equipment expert Dale Woodland claims that engine-hauled, ex-Reading coaches 2000, 2010, 2011, 2013, and 2016 (plus three others he does not provide numbers for) were also, in his words, "held in reserve by SEPTA for use in transit strike emergencies". In such an event, the railroad ran extra trains, with freight engines as motive power, to serve riders from close-in stations that now had no surface transit alternate due to a labor strike. However, I have no information that any of these particular coaches were used in the push-pull consist with any regularity (or indeed, even at all).

Mike@IHP wrote:and were they renumbered in SEPTA service?

I can't say that they definitively were or were not renumbered since their purely Reading ownership ended. The photographs I've seen generally do not have enough detail to lift coach numbers from; the photographers were focusing (literally ) on the locomotives. This train's FP7A (Reading class DP-1) diesels were renumbered in order to avoid roster conflicts with the huge new Conrail fleet of merged predecessor engines. I have some doubts that there was any similar urgency for the coaches that they hauled.

I'm pretty positive that they were retired and replaced with RDC's by the time SEPTA took over.

SEPTA painted first the FP7's, then the coaches, into a red-white-and-blue scheme similar to today's Bombers. Dale Woodland's "Reading Diesels Vol. 1" notes that dispatchers referred to the repainted set as the "circus train".

RDGAndrew wrote:

I'm pretty positive that they were retired and replaced with RDC's by the time SEPTA took over.

SEPTA painted first the FP7's, then the coaches, into a red-white-and-blue scheme similar to today's Bombers. Dale Woodland's "Reading Diesels Vol. 1" notes that dispatchers referred to the repainted set as the "circus train".

I was taking either the Crusader or the Wall Street pretty regularly from J'town to Newark in 1979 and 1980, and they were RDC's.

Clearfield wrote:

RDGAndrew wrote:

I'm pretty positive that they were retired and replaced with RDC's by the time SEPTA took over.

SEPTA painted first the FP7's, then the coaches, into a red-white-and-blue scheme similar to today's Bombers. Dale Woodland's "Reading Diesels Vol. 1" notes that dispatchers referred to the repainted set as the "circus train".

I was taking either the Crusader or the Wall Street pretty regularly from J'town to Newark in 1979 and 1980, and they were RDC's.

The push-pull ran almost exclusively between Reading and Philadelphia to keep it close to Reading for servicing. The notable exception was its' use on midday Bethlehem runs either to fill in for the RDC's, typically in June while the RDC's were in for inspection, to "shine the rails" when grade crossing shunting became a problem after through freights were discontinued or as an "ice breaker" in winter months to clear ice build up in grade crossing flangeways and switch frogs which resulted in a few RDC derailments.

One feature of the coaches which helped to keep the train set intact was the existence of MU bus lines along the center of the roof lines as both FP-7's (or alternate power) were online in a true push/pull operation. Most of the cars also retained their original skirting up until the end.

Railpace dedicated their cover and had a full article by Dale Woodland on this train in their September 1990 issue. There is also a photo of the train in SEPTA colors on page 22 of the March 1997 Railpace with 4372 (former RDG 903) on the head end at Souderton.

Following discontinuance of SEPTA diesel service, the cars spent some time on MetroNorth. I recall seeing them laying over at Poughkeepsie in the 1983-84 timeframe. Five cars survive to this day, in service, at the Danbury RR Museum with 2014 and 1547 restored to Reading livery.

glennk419 wrote:[-lots of good info-]

Thanks for sharing that additional set of details! There's likely some folks that haven't yet heard those aspects of the tale, though I'm au courant with it.


Clearfield and RDGAndrew, I'm confused about the nature (rather than the content) of the points you're trying to make to each other. Both of you seem to be talking somewhat past one another. Apologies in advance if I've misunderstood either of you, or if you two weren't sharing a dialogue after all.

Clearfield wrote:I'm pretty positive that they were retired and replaced with RDC's by the time SEPTA took over.

No; the push-pull train was still in service until the end of all SEPTA diesels runs in late July 1981.

RDGAndrew wrote:SEPTA painted first the FP7's, then the coaches, into a red-white-and-blue scheme similar to today's Bombers. Dale Woodland's "Reading Diesels Vol. 1" notes that dispatchers referred to the repainted set as the "circus train".

Yes; this was done after the February 1978 derailment at Norristown, when the whole consist (incl. the engines) was taken out of service for repairs. While the train was shopped, it was a great time to kill two birds with one stone!

Clearfield wrote:I was taking either the Crusader or the Wall Street pretty regularly from J'town to Newark in 1979 and 1980, and they were RDC's.

This datum, while accurate, appears to have little in common with the thread. During the 1976-1981 period, the push-pull equipment was used on Main Line trains 4 and 7. The diesel schedules of everything other than 4 and 7 were covered by RDC equipment. If you rode the push-pull on the New York Branch during that time period, I would genuinely be fascinated to hear about it; such an unusual car deployment would be a true rarity.

The sole planned exception to the above was when the RDC fleet received its annual round of maintenance work, which entailed re-shuffling the cars' assignments for a short time. While RDCs were withdrawn in small numbers at a time during those few weeks, the push-pull equipment covered a morning post-peak Bethlehem round trip in addition to its usual beat.


So, both of you folks are correct: the NY trains' schedules were covered by RDCs, and the push-pull consist (including locomotives) was eventually repainted from ex-Reading livery to SEPTA red-white-blue.