The Flying Yankee

Keep in mind that information has it that a brand, spanking new Winton sits still in it's original crating down at the B&O Railroad Museum currently used as a display. To my knowledge, negotiations with the museum to use this engine never took place.

For all the Winton's supposed failings, I have suggested before that if this new engine could be used, as a new industrial grade engine how could it not give many years of service, particularly if it were run for special events only and not made into a work horse ? After many years, if it did finally fail, either display it under cover or let another generation worry about it !

I'm still in favor of running it with the old reliable ALCO 539.....(S-1 switcher and all!)

If you're riding the Flying Yankee, does it really matter to you if it's being pulled or self-propelled? All you need for that glamour shot is a quick separation of the switcher and Yankee. A simple diesel generator could provide headlights, interior power, and A/C. I would also put the 12,000lb Winton back in place (cold) to weigh everything down, and to display how it was once arranged.

Maybe this way people would rather ride it than chase it...and maybe someday it would be popular enough to spend the extra $ to do it right and find a prime mover?

You have to admit, what they've done so far, was done very nicely...it's time to let her out on the rails!

MEC407 wrote:Does anyone know how much a V6 567 weighs? (I haven't been able to find the weight on the web.)

Thanks to a helpful person at LocoNotes, I've found that the V6 567 for railroad applications typically weighs around 16,000 pounds — 4,000 pounds heavier than the straight-8 201A. I'll leave it to folks more knowledgeable than I to determine whether that's a trivial or significant difference.

For comparison, a modern engine of equivalent horsepower is the Cummins QSK-19, which is a straight-6 that has a proven history in rail applications. The QSK-19 weighs around 5,000 pounds, or less than half the weight of the FY's Winton. While that might seem problematic on the surface, there's also a silver lining: two QSK-19s could be installed — one for propulsion and one for HEP — and you'd still be at only 10,000 pounds for the pair. Additional weight would likely come from the two engines' cooling systems, the HEP equipment, etc. I betcha that would put you right around 12,000-14,000 pounds... not too far from the weight of the original Winton.

QSK-19 dimensions: 71 inches in length, 42 inches in width, 65 inches in height. I'll let the aforementioned more-knowledgeable folks figure out if that would work in the Yankee, but I suspect it would work pretty easily, considering that we're talking about two 19-liter engines vs. a 56-liter engine (6-567C) vs. a 66-liter engine (8-201A).

This approach could have numerous potential advantages over both the Winton restoration and the 567 conversion: better fuel economy, higher reliability, superior availability of parts and supplies, drastically reduced emissions, just to name a few.

Sometimes you get a better feeling of where you are if you look at the next street over.
Recently, the Illinois Railway Museum brought out their Electroliner set for the holiday, already looking ravishing in preparation for it's complete and total professional restoration scheduled to be completed in less than 2-1/2 years.

Picture courtesy of Classic Trains Magazine shows the Illinois Railway Museum's North Shore combine (left) and Electroliner set (right) at the museum.

I'm deeply saddened to report that one of the most frequent and passionate contributors to the Flying Yankee discussion has passed away. I only found out about it last night. I'm mentioning it here for those of you who (like myself) don't often visit the MBTA forum.

Rest in peace, Sgt. Paul A. Joyce, B.P.D. — a.k.a. 3rdrail.

For more info: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=152153

MEC407 wrote:I'm deeply saddened to report that one of the most frequent and passionate contributors to the Flying Yankee discussion has passed away. I only found out about it last night. I'm mentioning it here for those of you who (like myself) don't often visit the MBTA forum.

Rest in peace, Sgt. Paul A. Joyce, B.P.D. — a.k.a. 3rdrail.

For more info: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=152153

WOAH!
This is sad, SAD news.
While Paul and I may not always have seen eye-to-eye on everything, I most deeply respected his knowledge and memories of the MBTA and his dedication to preservation.
He will truly be missed.

3rdrail wrote:Keep in mind that information has it that a brand, spanking new Winton sits still in it's original crating down at the B&O Railroad Museum currently used as a display. To my knowledge, negotiations with the museum to use this engine never took place.

For all the Winton's supposed failings, I have suggested before that if this new engine could be used, as a new industrial grade engine how could it not give many years of service, particularly if it were run for special events only and not made into a work horse ? After many years, if it did finally fail, either display it under cover or let another generation worry about it !

Paul was on to something here...seems silly that no one involved in the restoration proposed this.

NRGeep wrote:

3rdrail wrote:Keep in mind that information has it that a brand, spanking new Winton sits still in it's original crating down at the B&O Railroad Museum currently used as a display. To my knowledge, negotiations with the museum to use this engine never took place.

For all the Winton's supposed failings, I have suggested before that if this new engine could be used, as a new industrial grade engine how could it not give many years of service, particularly if it were run for special events only and not made into a work horse ? After many years, if it did finally fail, either display it under cover or let another generation worry about it !

Paul was on to something here...seems silly that no one involved in the restoration proposed this.

Every time this comes up, I think to myself: "Does the B&O museum WANT to give it up just like that?"
How valuable IS it t them?
Was there EVER any indication AT ALL of B&O/Smithsonian EVER being wiling to do so?
EVER?!?!?!?

Perhaps not, but maybe that's because no one has ever actually asked them if they'd be willing to part with it.

I read this board daily, but rarely post. As a 14+ year volunteer at the B&O Museum in Rail Operations, I can clarify a few things. The Winton that the museum has that is talked about is not "new in a crate." It is (and apparently has been for quite some time) mounted on painted 6x6s for display. I cannot honestly say whether it has ever been mounted in a locomotive, but it has been on display for decades and shows signs of that. It is currently in the North Carshop building near the EA for interpretive purposes. While I don't speak for the museum, I seriously doubt that they would part with a piece of such significance so that it could be tinkered with and possibly run. Its much more valuable, and of great use to the museum in its current state.

Thank you for the information, BOMX1200.

I'm not going to say "I told you so," but I will go as far as saying I long had my doubts about something that was made to sound so good and simple and easy a solution.
And yes, thank you BOMX for finally laying thi- *ahem* clearing up this long misrepresented "fact."

In the spirit of the Yankee, and in considering the ground breaking technology it brought with its first arrival in the 1930s, it would only seem fitting to have something equally revolutionary for its second reveal. Would it not be possible that one of the current locomotive companies may wish to donate or offer a new diesel "clean" power plant at a greatly reduced cost in order to showcase their new technology...plus there might be tax right offs etc....?

It couldn't hurt to ask. The EMD/Progress/Caterpillar conglomerate would be the obvious first choice, since the FY was built and powered by EMD's predecessors... and a pair of Cat C18 diesels would probably be a good fit for providing propulsion and HEP.

They might insist on having "CAT DIESEL POWER" decals on the outside of the power car, which might seem a little tacky, but it would certainly be a small price to pay for free engines.

So now the question becomes, "Is this something that the FYRG has already considered? If yes, who did they ask and what was the response? If no, why didn't they ask anyone, and would they now be willing to make that request?"

MEC407 wrote:It couldn't hurt to ask. The EMD/Progress/Caterpillar conglomerate would be the obvious first choice, since the FY was built and powered by EMD's predecessors... and a pair of Cat C18 diesels would probably be a good fit for providing propulsion and HEP.

They might insist on having "CAT DIESEL POWER" decals on the outside of the power car, which might seem a little tacky, but it would certainly be a small price to pay for free engines.

So now the question becomes, "Is this something that the FYRG has already considered? If yes, who did they ask and what was the response? If no, why didn't they ask anyone, and would they now be willing to make that request?"

I'd have to second that motion... The worst that would happen is that CAT, GM or any of the suppliers would say no. Nothing gained, nothing major lost (I wouldn't count time as major...). In regards to the decals... I don't think that is a bad trade-off either. Also consider that the side of FY has seen some interesting graphics while in service, so it wouldn't necessarily have no historical precedent...