if it survived than this forum will be the Erie-Lackawanna Rail istead of NJT. and we would also see all EL colors.
Railroad Forums
What if...[The Erie-Lackawanna Survived]?
- Discussion relating to the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, the Erie, and the resulting 1960 merger creating the Erie Lackawanna. Visit the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society at http://www.erielackhs.org/.
Moderator: blockline4180
There are a lot of good pages online about EL and its connections to the west via passenger train.
Last edited by HBLR on Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
No I'm not a railroad professional, but that doesn't mean I can't provide first hand observational comments.
In full honesty, as I said before, the Erie-Lackawanna could've survived as a freight only railroad. I get the feeling NJDOT was going to become perma-commuter, and eventually NJ Transit. It seemed pretty inevitable. But again, it's history now.
I didn't get into teaching for the promotions or the pension plans or so I could get to the golf course by 3:45. I did it because I wanted to help you kids. I'd forgotten that, till today. -- Principal Peter Prickly.
No I'm not a railroad professional, but that doesn't mean I can't provide first hand observational comments.
Why did the state (NJDOT) not like E-L using u34ch loco's for freight service on weekends? Was it so they don't burn out the passenger engine fleet? What else could they have used? (or what did the state want?) A switcher? They had a few of those. Or a geep?
I'd like to see any copies or photos of documentation relating to that. Only thing i can think of is liability and wear/tear.
Is there right of way from hoboken to scranton, and would it connect with the line to buffalo anymore?? If so you could have in the not so near future (30 years) service on such a line, would bring many towns the first passenger trains since the 50's/60's.
Is there right of way from hoboken to scranton, and would it connect with the line to buffalo anymore?? If so you could have in the not so near future (30 years) service on such a line, would bring many towns the first passenger trains since the 50's/60's.
No I'm not a railroad professional, but that doesn't mean I can't provide first hand observational comments.
airman00 wrote:Why did the state (NJDOT) not like E-L using u34ch loco's for freight service on weekends? Was it so they don't burn out the passenger engine fleet? What else could they have used? (or what did the state want?) A switcher? They had a few of those. Or a geep?Simple, would you like engines you bought for passenger service getting stuck in Binghamton or Chicago on a Monday when it should be working commuter trains?
Moderator:NJT Rail
Kaback9 wrote:I agree with that, but was the E-L power starved or did they not have enough work engines?airman00 wrote:Why did the state (NJDOT) not like E-L using u34ch loco's for freight service on weekends? Was it so they don't burn out the passenger engine fleet? What else could they have used? (or what did the state want?) A switcher? They had a few of those. Or a geep?Simple, would you like engines you bought for passenger service getting stuck in Binghamton or Chicago on a Monday when it should be working commuter trains?
How old was their motive fleet at that time?
No I'm not a railroad professional, but that doesn't mean I can't provide first hand observational comments.
Someone in the NJDOT knew that the U34's were being used in freight service. Hours and miles were tracked and reported as far as I know. The Erie often used local power [RS3's and Geeps] in freight service on weekends. They collected them on Friday night from the outlaying passenger terminals and returned them Sunday night. I can recall being called out on one Sunday night to WC tower to "yard" U34's being returned for Monday morning service. Generally the U34's and the local power came off at Port Jervis, with normal road power being the replacement power. Some of the U34's did operate west of PO however. As I recall the U34's always operated in back to back pairs, they may have operated with four units [two pairs].
Does not the death of the Rock Island have to do something with the death of the Erie? In that UP/BN/SF/CNW moved there overhead traffic to other railroads? The lack of a freindly connection to other railroads?
gearhead wrote:Does not the death of the Rock Island have to do something with the death of the Erie? In that UP/BN/SF/CNW moved there overhead traffic to other railroads? The lack of a freindly connection to other railroads?The Rock Island was around for 4 years after the EL ceased to exist. RI was shut down in March, 1980.
tjdean wrote:Agreed. EL's biggest interchange partner at Chicago as ATSF... from the merger in 1960 to the last day of operations in 1976. The Rock Island had very little to do with the relationship between EL and ATSF.gearhead wrote:Does not the death of the Rock Island have to do something with the death of the Erie? In that UP/BN/SF/CNW moved there overhead traffic to other railroads? The lack of a freindly connection to other railroads?The Rock Island was around for 4 years after the EL ceased to exist. RI was shut down in March, 1980.
Matt Langworthy
"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."
"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."
Don't forget that MTA was kicking in funds to help EL survive on the southern tier west of Suffern since the 1970's, so technically EL was dead by then (at least for that portion of NY State.
lets go back a little further than 1960, what if the nickel plate DID merge into the lackawanna. the lackawanna would now have it's own track to chicago, and if the 1955 flood never did happen. The lackawanna was the most financially secured railroad on the east coast. They could of started to merge other railroads into the lackawanna, no EL, no PC, no CR, no CSX, no NS. We would see grey, yellow & maroon running the tracks.