Engineer for a Day

So I am glad you agree, it's just applied physics and mechanics.
With proper training, it can be done soon as someone has a brain about themselves.

But if rocket science is overrated and running a train is simply applied physics and mechanics, while rocket science is doing the same but with more unknown variables, (ie. gravitational pull, solar flare, etc), it seems you may have underscored railroad engIneering, no?

mirrodie wrote:So I am glad you agree, it's just applied physics and mechanics.
With proper training, it can be done soon as someone has a brain about themselves.

But if rocket science is overrated and running a train is simply applied physics and mechanics, while rocket science is doing the same but with more unknown variables, (ie. gravitational pull, solar flare, etc), it seems you may have underscored railroad engIneering, no?

I slightly disagree. Running a train isn't just applied physics and mechanics. That is a major part of it, but I think the cerebral aspect is overshadowed. I have been in a number of different positions in the railroad, so I have a perspective that few people have. It is an operation. It is a thinking man's game. It is doing everything that Desertdweller said and not only knowing how, but WHY and WHEN do it. There are literally 1000's of rules coursing through your brain that must be recalled and implemented as you move your train. THAT is what separates an "engineer" from a "brake and a gas," a "dispatcher" from a "line watcher," a "conductor" from a "fake fireman" or in passenger service, "a lead ticket taker."

I can take a 10 year old, put him in the seat, and say push this button, pull this lever back and move this forward, and guess what? He will be able to move the train. I can say push this forward, and the train will stop. Does that make him an engineer? Of course not.

This argument transcends the engine service craft. Railroading is about the textbook, but comes from the seat...from the experience. I have seen people that are "book smart," and can quote every rule and address every scenario go out in the field and not be able to apply that information to the task at hand. Conversely, I can go to people that have never had an incident, never been out of service and ask them what they just did and why and the answer is not pretty.

Railroading is the ultimate "cause and effect," and all of the training in the world can't help some people see outside their vision to gain the picture that is needed to be competent.

I never said it is just "physics and mechanics".

Third Rail is right. Driving a car is "physics and mechanics" too, but everybody knows someone who is too nervous to do it.

If you have operated a locomotive, even as a "paying guest", you should have noticed the sense of feedback the machine is giving you. You can probably ignore that, with a real engineer holding your hand, but as a real engineer you would ignore that at your peril.

If anyone could do this, anyone could fly an airplane, drive a racecar in a race, sail a yacht, etc.

Les

"If anyone could do this, anyone could fly an airplane, drive a racecar in a race, sail a yacht"

Oh, absolutely.

All it takes is training and know-how (physics) to get the body of knowledge (be it flight, getting a medical degree, running a train, driving a car, launching a shuttle), then followed by further years of experience (applied physics).

The principles are all the same regardless the profession, that is, one with a good head on their shoulders acquires a body of knowledge on paper which they must then apply to the real world. And that will only come with experience.

I still have young doctors 'shadow' me from time to time and do teach them, but even so, although I have this body of knowledge, nothing could prepare me for the everyday experiences that we get.


Point is, I have a few hundred bucks I'd like to give to a rail museum and I just would like to learn of the ones that allow the limited experience of running a light loco. I know a few were around pre-9-11 but life got in the way. And these museums are a great way to do it with limited liability, just like my experiences at Boeing.

But les, if you've got the money and the means to back that idea, you could really build a bit of a business there!

Just wanted to quickly point out, employees of NS do not pay to go to school. Conductors and Engineers get paid to go to GA, including mileage, and meal tickets.

I didnt pay to go on BNSF when I got my card. I did pay for eating there.But everything else was covered. As a side note BNSF does NOT allow someone off the street to play engineer there. If your doing the engineer for a day program at a local museum thats cool. Hoosier Valley railroad museum offers it as well.But for training as an engineer off the street I think Modoc is about it.

As an aside the only railroads that hire engineers right off the street ( must have at least two years experience) CP on the former DM&E/IC&E property.IC and a few other CN lines. Amtrak and Metra. A smattering of shortlines will as well. But most Class I railroads have union agreements that do not allow this.BNSF is one of them.

Thunder wrote:I didnt pay to go on BNSF when I got my card. I did pay for eating there.But everything else was covered. As a side note BNSF does NOT allow someone off the street to play engineer there. If your doing the engineer for a day program at a local museum thats cool. Hoosier Valley railroad museum offers it as well.But for training as an engineer off the street I think Modoc is about it.

As an aside the only railroads that hire engineers right off the street ( must have at least two years experience) CP on the former DM&E/IC&E property.IC and a few other CN lines. Amtrak and Metra. A smattering of shortlines will as well. But most Class I railroads have union agreements that do not allow this.BNSF is one of them.

I would have to agree. *I* didn't run locomotives; I was a clerk. I *did* get to run the simulator the company brought to the annual Safety Meetings, and I worked with the crews and sometimes rode with them, asking questions. It is one thing to 'run' a museum train and operate a real train over the long haul. One has to take a lot of things in consideration. Like having part of your train going UP hill, another part going DOWN, yet another going UP still. It all requires experience (qualifying) not to cause a break-in-two. The engineer must know how to use braking, throttle, pushers (if any), or take into account any mid-train slaves. It can be a juggling act. Do *I* have real expertise? No. The idea of foamers out there "fulfilling their lifelong dream" of 'driving' a train (a term I HATE) makes me shudder. I learned a lot from my own life on the railroad, but running trains? No. That's why they only let people like me run the simulator. I don't agree with hiring people right off the street to be engineers. That's CRAZY! Them museum trains, I avoid!

GF,

I'm in full agreement with you.

If you want to run light engines, be a hostler.

You can maybe even do it by remote control, like a model railroad.

Les

Clerk turned engineer who achieved his career goal: Railroad Retirement!

I can't get my head around the "Engineer for a Day" programs either. If these tourist lines can make money by having some buff-o-matic get his rocks off by running a light engine down some yard track, more power to them.

The same goes for the Choo Choo U programs like at Johnson County CC, KS. These guys want to work on the railroad sooooooo bad. It is like our employment forum. Some people have good questions, but others are in impossible positions, and there is no way they will ever get hired. I got sent to JCCC for conductor and engineer training AFTER I got hired.

There is so little in common between running a light engine down a yard track and real railroading. Let one of the engineer for a day guys ride along some time. Wait until he has been up all day, since the train was on the line up for 0800 the next morning. At about 0230 the train shows up out of thin air. See how well he functions with a 100 car coal train in heavy grade territory.

I think the JCCC has a good program for what is taught. I was sent by my employer for SLE training, and I felt they did a good job.

I had been running trains for several years before going to JCCC.

Part of the training, as you know, is on simulators. They are good, but not a real substitute, in my opinion, for actual train handling. For instance, the simulators I operated had a graphic display to show you where the slack was located in the train: something an engineer has to learn by feel.

I think most of the other students were BNSF employees. They were taken to Argentine Yard for orientation.

By the way, I thought the food in the cafeteria was outstanding.

Les