NYSW to own CEFX leasors

The flip side of this argument is this: If CSX owns 40% of the company the engine is going to, then why would they risk an engine that is essentially an investment for them?

3810 arrived Binghamton, parked on Court Street near Burger King. Took some nice night photos.

airman00 wrote:The flip side of this argument is this: If CSX owns 40% of the company the engine is going to, then why would they risk an engine that is essentially an investment for them?

You do know that all railroad locomotives less than 10-15 years old are leased by the individual railroad, right? The lease ends they get the option to buy and keep, or park and return to the lessor. What exactly are they risking that they aren't risking running their own engines every single day?

Nice shot, IRail!

lvrr325 wrote:

kingfish wrote:

lvrr325 wrote:Could be as simple as CSX gets to use the engine for a while in lieu of paying for the transport on it. Who knows. CSX owns about two fifths of the engine anyways, give or take, through their partial ownership of NYS&W.

To the first comment...no..NYSW is paying freight. Quite a hefty amount for the unit to jackwagon around on a CSX tour.

The second comment..completely wrong...how can CSX own 2/5 of a long term lease? GATX owns the SD60s.

BTW, does anyone have any evidence of CSX ownership??

As part of the Conrail buyout, CSX and NS got together and loaned Water Rich the money to buy out Delaware Otsego’s stock, taking it from public to private hands.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/08/12/busin ... -deal.html

As a result, Delaware Otsego, the parent company which owns the NYS&W, remains under control of CSX and NS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_O ... orporation

On October 3, 1997, DOCP Acquisition LLC announced it had completed the short-form merger of Delaware Otsego Corporation (NASDAQ:DOCP) with a wholly owned subsidiary via a stock tender offer of $22 per share.[3]
This deal essentially brought the DO System of Railroads, including the subsidiary New York, Susquehanna and Western Railway (NYS&W), under control of the much larger Norfolk Southern and CSX rail systems, because the new owner DOCP Acquisition LLC is owned 40% by Norfolk Southern, 40% by CSX and 20% by Walter G. Rich of the Delaware Otsego Corporation.[4]

http://www.secinfo.com/$/SEC/Filings.as ... sition+LLC

Lots more links:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&scli ... corp&btnG=


Therefore, CSX owns 40% of the railroad, and whether these new units are owned, leased, or whatever, they have a 40% interest in it. So if they use it for a week or two, so what?

Lvrr325, great homework and that is not meant as a snark. Controlling interest and active ownership participation are two different things. I can state that neither of the two class ones mentioned have conributed any financial aid in any capacity in the 5 3/4 years of my relationship with them. The fact of the matter is the units are leased to NYSW, paid for by NYSW operating income, will be maintained by NYSW operating income and no other entity. The fact that a controlling interest may have used the unit is wrong due to the nature of the movement "contract" (waybill).

No matter I highly doubt either big boy has the S-Q at the top of their radar screen. Too small and not integral to the big plan.

kingfish wrote:All ofthe units are being interchanged with batteries disconnected, no seats, no coolant, minimal fuel, no radio or HOT device to preclude easy use. CSX has been known to make dead in consist useable for "free" service.

3810 and the five remaining units will be moved to Binghamton dead and put into service from that location. Part of the contractual agreement calls for final acceptance there. GATX will have a representative on hand to ride it and oversee correcting any glitches that arise.

Cheers,

Kingfish

As Kingfish has stated, the unit was dead in tow on CSX. They weren't using it for power.

It's likely the reason the unit went back and forth so many times is that the dispatcher didn't want to slow down traffic in order to make the drop, and instead instructed the crew to keep going. Tying up the main for a drop can cause some serious problems for a dispatcher, especially if a high priorty train is close behind.

Another reason why this happens is when a power consist planned for one train ends up assigned to another train. I'd say this is the leading cause of DIT units ending up in some very unusual places...

The fun is about to start all over again. NYSW 3808 is reportedly awaiting pickup by PAL at Paducah for transfer to CSX at Louisville. Are we taking bets on how many transits of the water level route this unit will take before making landfall at Dewitt?

N_DL640A wrote:
As Kingfish has stated, the unit was dead in tow on CSX. They weren't using it for power.

It's likely the reason the unit went back and forth so many times is that the dispatcher didn't want to slow down traffic in order to make the drop, and instead instructed the crew to keep going. Tying up the main for a drop can cause some serious problems for a dispatcher, especially if a high priorty train is close behind.

Another reason why this happens is when a power consist planned for one train ends up assigned to another train. I'd say this is the leading cause of DIT units ending up in some very unusual places...

Two eyewitness reports of it online with smoke/exhaust coming out the stack and what, you're saying they're not being honest then?

But then Dewitt is a big yard with lots of tracks, there's certainly room to get out of the way to make a drop if they need it.

my opinion, based on what we know, probably correct:

Kingfish says *officially* its supposed to be offline, and as far as he knows, it's offline and not operating.
two eyewitness reports say this was not the case, and the unit was in fact operating.

Everyone is probably right.

Scot

This has been the most entertaining conversation I have read in a while.

Not trying to start a fight, but seriously, What's it matter if 3810 was running or not??? If it WAS running on CSX, which I somehow doubt, then why get all worked up over it??

The bottom line is, it's over. 3810 is now SAFE on "Home" rails, and we will all get a chance to see it running eventually. Can we focus on the other units now?? Just my two cents.

Alek S

Alek9997 wrote:This has been the most entertaining conversation I have read in a while.

Not trying to start a fight, but seriously, What's it matter if 3810 was running or not??? If it WAS running on CSX, which I somehow doubt, then why get all worked up over it??

The bottom line is, it's over. 3810 is now SAFE on "Home" rails, and we will all get a chance to see it running eventually. Can we focus on the other units now?? Just my two cents.

Alek S

Whats the matter?

Its just like if you decide to lease a car, you goto dealer and expect a car to have X amount of miles (factory to delivery truck, delivery truck to dealer) when you sign the document but when you get it you find out it was being driven all around by the dealership employee's and now its has "Wear and tear" that you didn't pay for and a hole bunch of miles on it. Wouldn't you be a little upset?

lvrr325 wrote:

N_DL640A wrote:
As Kingfish has stated, the unit was dead in tow on CSX. They weren't using it for power.

It's likely the reason the unit went back and forth so many times is that the dispatcher didn't want to slow down traffic in order to make the drop, and instead instructed the crew to keep going. Tying up the main for a drop can cause some serious problems for a dispatcher, especially if a high priorty train is close behind.

Another reason why this happens is when a power consist planned for one train ends up assigned to another train. I'd say this is the leading cause of DIT units ending up in some very unusual places...

Two eyewitness reports of it online with smoke/exhaust coming out the stack and what, you're saying they're not being honest then?

But then Dewitt is a big yard with lots of tracks, there's certainly room to get out of the way to make a drop if they need it.

What I'm saying is that the CMO (or former CMO?... he was CMO when I worked there) of the NYSW has said that it was shipped dead, drained, with the batteries disconnected, and that it was interchanged to the NYSW in Dewitt in that condition, to be placed in service in Binghamton.
Further, when I saw it on two separate days (at a rather close distance) it was shut down.
I can also say from personal experience that if a foregin unit arrives without water and it's batteries discconnected, it's unlikely that it will be placed in service.

Steve F45 wrote:

Alek9997 wrote:This has been the most entertaining conversation I have read in a while.

Not trying to start a fight, but seriously, What's it matter if 3810 was running or not??? If it WAS running on CSX, which I somehow doubt, then why get all worked up over it??

The bottom line is, it's over. 3810 is now SAFE on "Home" rails, and we will all get a chance to see it running eventually. Can we focus on the other units now?? Just my two cents.

Alek S

Whats the matter?

Its just like if you decide to lease a car, you goto dealer and expect a car to have X amount of miles (factory to delivery truck, delivery truck to dealer) when you sign the document but when you get it you find out it was being driven all around by the dealership employee's and now its has "Wear and tear" that you didn't pay for and a hole bunch of miles on it. Wouldn't you be a little upset?

Of course I would be upset, but comparing the two scenarios is apples and oranges I think.

Here is my question...If GATX finds out the unit WAS in fact online for many miles during transit (IF it was, anyway), then wouldn't CSX have to pay for some of the maintenance/inspections performed on the unit when the time comes?

Sorry, But I am not sure how the whole lease agreement works out. But let's move on to #3808. Hypothetically, let's say CSX does the same thing they did with #3810. If the unit takes, say, two weeks to get from KY to NY over CSX, would that still be NYS&W's time having the unit on lease? Or would that not start until the unit is on NYS&W rails? Who would be paying CSX for the transport of the unit, NYS&W or GATX or both?

Alek S

I believe #3810 was leading the SU 100 tonight ( 5-22-12), it was at track speed around 9pm and in a wooded area so i didnt get a great view. So please dont throw me to the lions if i am wrong on this one! Either way its good to see a yellow jacket back in front!!!