PL42AC thread

[n01jd1]

I believe only NJTransit bought this locomotive? I’m wondering why no other company bought PL42s. We’re they bad problem engines? Are they still in service?

The PL42's are a custom locomotive designed by or for NJTransit only. As far as I know, most if all are still running. They are used on multilevel consists as the HEP can handle them. I caught NJT 4018 is on train 5529 at Union, NJ on the Raritan Line on Sunday, March 5. I have seen them on Bergen County and Main Line trains as well. As to if they were a failure? Well they had some serious teething problems in the beginning. It seems as though the problems were fixed. The reason they are being replaced with another order of ALP45DP's is they need an overhaul and doing so would require them to meet Tier 4 specs which the 710 cant meet which is why Progress Rail, a subsidiary of CAT and also calls itself Electro Motive diesel switched to a new 4 cycle engine. The 710 just cant be made Tier 4 without urea or just cant be made Tier 4 compliant period. EMD spent two years developing the SD70ACe-T4. The railroads are not happy with Tier 4 locomotives from either Wabtec (GE) and Progress Rail (EMD) and are just not buying them. The Wabtec (GE's) are faring better than the Progress Rail (EMD's) I guess they are making money on rebuilds from DC to AC, selling parts, and building export locomotives. EMD/Progress Rail lease locomotives are very popular in Brazil.

[n01jd1]

What Dcell said, And why is it an issue that the PL42s don’t meet emissions requirements but the old GP40s, some of which are from the CNJ days, are still running around not having to worry about such requirements?

The GP40's are grandfathered into Tier0 our Tier1. They can keep overhauling them and using them. Many have had their HEP generators removed and the locomotive is used in standby service or MOW. 4101 and 4109 are two that were rebuilt and kept their HEP. They are assigned to the Hoboken division for single level consists. They both have been going up to Port Jervis a lot!!

[Dcell]

Thanks for the additional details. I am shaking my head in disbelief that the rebuilt GP-40s will still be Tier 0 or Tier 1 pollution engines when NJT's new locomotives are meeting the current Tier 4 standard. I thought Gov Murphy is a big clean environment guy but it seems not to be true when it comes to locomotives.

[lensovet]

In 2008, when Tier 3 and 4 emissions standards were rolled out (with actual rolling stock meeting this requirement by 2011/12) this made Tier 0-2 standards more stringent, but nothing which stipulates locomotives which were built when Tier 0-2 was in place need to meet Tier 3 or 4 standards when remanufactured. The PL42AC's were built between 2003-2006. This would make them Tier 1. The 2006's, almost at the cusp of Tier 2. There is no logic behind not overhauling them because you can't make PL42AC's Tier 4.

Please stop moving the goalposts. You said things get grandfathered, I just gave you an example of how even Tier 0/1 need to meet updated (not latest, but updated, not grandfathered) regulations anytime a rebuild takes place.

As you said PL42ACs were delivered into 2006. They aren't going to overhaul half the fleet. Tier 2 applies to 2005 or later.

I thought Gov Murphy is a big clean environment guy but it seems not to be true when it comes to locomotives.

When River Line engines were overhauled a few years ago, they made them tier 4 compliant even though they didn't have to. It is not practical to make the GPs tier 4 compliant, the cost to do that would probably exceed the cost to buy a new locomotive. The emissions from two GPs that run a few times a week pales in comparison to replacing all the PL42s with 45DPs. So not sure where you see the contradiction. Of course, Murphy also doesn't run NJT, so his personal wishes probably have only limited impact on the buying decisions of the agency.

[R36 Combine Coach]

As you said PL42ACs were delivered into 2006. They aren't going to overhaul half the fleet. Tier 2 applies to 2005 or later.

As mentioned earlier, the fleet was partially assembled in Hornell prior to January 1, 2005 to squeak by EPA Tier 2.

Chassis, carbody and truck work first and then installation of engines, with final assembly coming later.

[lensovet]

Well, maybe someone feels bad about continuing to use tier 1 engines in 2023 then.

[Dcell]

The overhaul bids have been delayed until May and I'm hearing the project may be cancelled and the units scrapped in favor of buying new Tier 4 clean diesel locomotives.

[lensovet]

The overhaul bids have been delayed until May and I'm hearing the project may be cancelled and the units scrapped in favor of buying new Tier 4 clean diesel locomotives.

What were you saying about Murphy not being a clean environment guy?

[Dcell]

Let's see what NJT decides to do. I will gladly admit I was wrong if the NJT Board decides to buy new Tier 4 compliant diesel locomotives.

What were you saying about Murphy not being a clean environment guy?

[Ken W2KB]

What were you saying about Murphy not being a clean environment guy?

Let's see what NJT decides to do. I will gladly admit I was wrong if the NJT Board decides to buy new Tier 4 compliant diesel locomotives.

If the NJT Board decides not buy Tier 4 and Governor Murphy wants Tier 4 he has veto power over that Board action.

[dowlingm]

I’m a little confused by this thread. There is discussion of Tier regulations (and upgrading to Tier 4) but also CARB.

1. Is there any federal law which requires the PL42AC to be upgraded to a higher Tier level to the one it entered service in? I thought the answer to that was “no” but people above have mentioned that the 710s can’t go to Tier 4 - is this CARB or just something NJT think they should be doing?

2. Assuming my answer to 1. above is correct, is there anything which would prevent NJ Transit from disposing of the PL42ACs to a non-CARB state and transit operator, particularly those already operating EMD engines? For example, if Nashville wanted to replace the Music City Star/WeGo Star F40PHs with the PL42s, and had a commitment from Alstom to support them, would anything prevent that, including conditions on grants to support the original order? (Or are they just such a bad platform that even Metra not acquiring them should be seen as a sign about the market generally)

[RandallW]

I think that under 40 CFR 92 and 40 CFR 1033, rebuilding or remanufacturing the engines will trigger the current tier for new engines at the time of remanufacture unless the original locomotive was built before 1 Jan 1973. I don't think its that the 710s can't go to Tier 4, the problem is they can't go to Tier 4 in the PL42AC carbody (the 710s appear to still be usable in Tier 4 marine applications).

[R36 Combine Coach]

If that is the case, rebuilding some 4200s which would be grandfathered (built 1965-1969) as GP40H-3s might be
more viable than a PL42 rebuild.

The PL42 might be considered an orphan platform, much like the DE30/DM30.

[dowlingm]

To me, that level of grandfathering seems insane since it keeps in service older locomotives with more miles in the frame and whose cabs were built to less robust safety standards (e.g. the VIA92 crash). But again, I don’t understand how some post 1973 locomotives are still running around happily without fear of the chop, like F40s and F59s. Were they not overhauled to a similar level?

[lensovet]

It's the same reason that historical cars are not required to pass emissions tests. The idea is that eventually they will stop running or their operational costs will be so large that they will be written off. The number of them already, as a fraction of the fleet, is pretty small.