PHL to NYP goes to Bala Cynwyd? - Keystone at Bala Cynwyd

How does a keystone train bound for NYC go backwards, up a septa line and doesn't realize it until the line dead ends at Bala Cynwyd? LOL
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/amtr ... s-20943493" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is also being discussed on the septa forums http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 2&t=153428" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The article I read stated that they were doing an unusual move to wye the train using the Cynwyd branch because of cab car problems. The problem is that they went 2 miles past where they were supposed to reverse -- to the end of the line. A two mile diversion doesn't seem that farfetched to a crew that is likely unfamiliar with the territory.

I'm surprised to learn that SEPTA has a line that's only two miles long! That's barely longer than the NJT Princeton branch.

You start to make sense of SEPTA, and then you realize you have no idea... At least that's my experience. They have a 2 mile branch, they have two lines going to Chestnut Hill, the airport is served by regional rail rather than subway, you've got the Norristown High Speed line which is cool but seems to duplicate two other lines and doesn't go downtown... Also, they're always broke. I've also never seen a system with such a high degree of animosity from the ridership.

ryanov wrote:The article I read stated that they were doing an unusual move to wye the train using the Cynwyd branch because of cab car problems. The problem is that they went 2 miles past where they were supposed to reverse -- to the end of the line. A two mile diversion doesn't seem that farfetched to a crew that is likely unfamiliar with the territory.

All they had to do was stop just beyond the opposing home signal and reverse. The question of why they kept on going will no doubt be gone into at the investigation. According to reports they had to wait at Cynwyd until a qualified SEPTA employee could get there to pilot them back, so it all took awhile.

Matt Johnson wrote:I'm surprised to learn that SEPTA has a line that's only two miles long! That's barely longer than the NJT Princeton branch.

Ah, but when influential politicians live along the line or have it in their district, the length becomes insignificant. Actually, a good argument can be made that the whole line, extending up the Schuylkill Valley past Reading, should never have been built in the first place. Except for the first few miles, it paralleled the Reading the whole way.

Tadman wrote:You start to make sense of SEPTA, and then you realize you have no idea... At least that's my experience. They have a 2 mile branch, they have two lines going to Chestnut Hill, the airport is served by regional rail rather than subway, you've got the Norristown High Speed line which is cool but seems to duplicate two other lines and doesn't go downtown... Also, they're always broke. I've also never seen a system with such a high degree of animosity from the ridership.

Tell me about it. I happen to patronize them about once a month, including the NHSL.

My experiences have been pretty awful at the 33rd street subway, including being told to go to a CLOSED window to buy a token. The guy at the window I went to seemed to think it was MY problem the other window was closed, not his.

That said, I wouldn't say the NHSL duplicates anything as it runs through a number of neighborhoods that have no other service.

And w/o it, I most likely would not have accepted my current assignment (for better or for worse

Tadman wrote:You start to make sense of SEPTA, and then you realize you have no idea... At least that's my experience. They have a 2 mile branch, they have two lines going to Chestnut Hill, the airport is served by regional rail rather than subway, you've got the Norristown High Speed line which is cool but seems to duplicate two other lines and doesn't go downtown... Also, they're always broke. I've also never seen a system with such a high degree of animosity from the ridership.

Older people in the area understand all this. The lines that you mention were from several different companies that eventually got put into SEPTA. The Norristown High Speed Line was the Philadelphia & Western Railway, unrelated to any of the others until it got folded into Philadelphia Suburban Transit/Red Arrow. On Regional Rail, the six-mile Cynwyd line was a PRR line that competed with the Reading's line to Reading until getting cut back to Cynwyd when the bridge over the Schuykill was falling apart. The two Chestnut Hill lines were PRR and Reading, one each. There's no subway line anywhere near the airport, but the NEC is very close, hence Regional Rail to the airport.
The lack of funding is a major problem that won't be solved during my lifetime.

edited to correct the length of the Cynwyd Line

This happened last week, but it's just hitting the news today. Amtrak train leaving Philly's 30th st station ends up at Bala Cynwyd station. One report says the engineer "missed a signal". I don't believe that could be correct, as missing a signal would never cause the train to be switched onto the wrong track. A dispatcher's error is the only way this can happen, right?
Regardless of what track the train was on, wouldn't you think the crew would have obeyed all signals?
Sure, you can blame the crew for not realizing right away that they were being routed on the wrong rails, but it appears to me that the blame should be first and foremost on the dispatcher for setting the wrong route for this train.

I'm very surprised that there is no video of this "errant" Amtrak train at Bala Cynwyd, shot by a lucky railfan who just happened to be there.

CP

Tadman wrote:You start to make sense of SEPTA, and then you realize you have no idea... At least that's my experience. They have a 2 mile branch, they have two lines going to Chestnut Hill, the airport is served by regional rail rather than subway, you've got the Norristown High Speed line which is cool but seems to duplicate two other lines and doesn't go downtown... Also, they're always broke. I've also never seen a system with such a high degree of animosity from the ridership.

it's the noly two miles left of a greater railroad to reading

ExCon90 wrote:All they had to do was stop just beyond the opposing home signal and reverse. The question of why they kept on going will no doubt be gone into at the investigation. According to reports they had to wait at Cynwyd until a qualified SEPTA employee could get there to pilot them back, so it all took awhile.

I'm not saying it was a reasonable mistake, I'm just saying it wasn't all that far, so saying "all the way to Cynwyd" isn't saying all that much.

CPSK wrote:One report says the engineer "missed a signal". I don't believe that could be correct, as missing a signal would never cause the train to be switched onto the wrong track. A dispatcher's error is the only way this can happen, right?
Sure, you can blame the crew for not realizing right away that they were being routed on the wrong rails, but it appears to me that the blame should be first and foremost on the dispatcher for setting the wrong route for this train.
I'm very surprised that there is no video of this "errant" Amtrak train at Bala Cynwyd, shot by a lucky railfan who just happened to be there.

Follow the link mentioned earlier to the S.E.P.T.A. portion of this Group and you'll find a link to the photos of the Amtrak train at Cynwyd. The Dispatcher did route them to the correct track, they just went 2 miles too far on it.

CPSK wrote:This happened last week, but it's just hitting the news today. Amtrak train leaving Philly's 30th st station ends up at Bala Cynwyd station. One report says the engineer "missed a signal". I don't believe that could be correct, as missing a signal would never cause the train to be switched onto the wrong track. A dispatcher's error is the only way this can happen, right?

When you know how the line works and how the signals are operated (by operators in towers) its easy to see how this could happen. First, it is unlikely this crew had ever been up the 52nd St viaduct on a qualifying run and if based out of NYP they probably don't get out on the Harrisburg Line much anyway. Second, the 52nd St viaduct used to be main track #4 and has a legacy signaling setup. Third that track is used for all Philly terminal wye moves in addition to Cynwyd trains. Fourth, control of the viaduct is split between the Train Director at ZOO and the operator at OVERBROOK. Fifth, entry onto the SEPTA Cynwyd branch is governed by an automatically operated absolute signal at CP-JEFF.

OVERBROOK leaves the 68L absolute signal at VALLEY interlocking pulled up so that when ZOO needs to send a wye move onto the Valley Ramp that train gets better signals at the JO section of ZOO. An unfamiliar crew might assume that the displayed 68L meant for them to keep on going. At CP-JEFF this signal then displays automatically if traffic can be west westbound on the Cynwyd single track. Again the engineer probably thought he was being actively routed somewhere.

So it is possible that the engineer missed the stop signal that was supposed to be the limit of the wye move. Perhaps if backing, there was no one on the rear end watching the signals? Sounds like a breach in rules, but I can only speculate, and it's not fair to do that.
The fact that the train was on an unscheduled move helps to explain how the train was routed onto the SEPTA track in the first place. The press never said a word about the train being turned. Of course, we should never rely on what we see on TV, read in the newspapers, or hear on the radio.

CP