Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Looks like the initial outage plans have been leaked:

http://www.politico.com/states/new-york ... ges-111703

Highlights:
Outage 1: July 7 - July 25 (19 days)
Outage 2: Aug 4 - Aug 28 (25 days)
Several 'Non-Severe' 55-hour Outages: May & June
Infrastructure work will be ongoing through June 2018

NJ Officials are upset that Amtrak is not "taking advantage of holidays" in this proposed plan (Independence Day and Labor Day weekends), in that less commuter disruption would be caused during those times. Accusations of minimizing peak holiday disruption for Amtrak.

Naturally this will be hashed out on political versus practical terms in the coming weeks. Going to be a rough summer for folks at PSNY.

Story from NYT regarding plans and questioning why they aren't taking advantage of July 4th and late Aug weekends when commuters tend to lighten due to holidays.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/nyre ... -news&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Patrick A. wrote: NJ Officials are upset that Amtrak is not "taking advantage of holidays" in this proposed plan (Independence Day and Labor Day weekends), in that less commuter disruption would be caused during those times. Accusations of minimizing peak holiday disruption for Amtrak.

I'm sure LIRR would NOT want to take July 4th. On a "normal" Independence Day getaway day, crowding in the station rival disruption conditions. The passengers boarding the small handful of Montauk trains that afternoon alone numbers in the many thousands.

Labor Day is less severe.

It will be interesting to learn how the track is being rehabbed. Are they going right down to the concrete, complete replacement of all switches, machines, etc? Wood ties again or possibly direct fixation? Some of the track does look pretty ancient in Interlocking A.

The other night I noticed the direct fixation track over on Track 15 and wondered why some of the LIRR tracks are like this but no others.

There are multiple crates of bagged concrete mix and a concrete mixer on the west side of platform 4. I would guess that these are to be used for the track repairs/replacement as there is no easily identifiable application for them for the West End Concourse. Mixing bagged concrete seems quite inefficient given how much concrete they will need for direct fixation of all tracks.

Does anyone know how the MTA Subways deliver the concrete mix into the subway tunnels when they replace tracks? Do they have some concrete mixer train?

totally crazy and ONLY theoretical question

taking an example from the MTA which will close the L tunnels for 18 months (or 15 months) - total closure for rehab
versus 36 month partial closures with all sorts of shuttles etc

IF IF amtrak and NJT and LIRR were able to come up with alternatives
(which of course they cannot which is why this is theoretical only)
and somehow totally close NYP and tunnels for rehab
any idea how long a full rehab would take if they worked 24/7?

and any ideas on configuration changes if such were be able to be done?
(ie changes to platform configuration, changes in switches/ladder tracks to allow even more flexibility)

again in theory only

These two documents may be of interest to readers who are looking for further details.

"Statement by Scot Naparstek, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer, Amtrak"
https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/978/51/Amt ... 8-2017.pdf
April 28, 2017
New Jersey Legislature Joint Hearing

Statement by Wick Moorman, President and Chief Executive Officer, Amtrak
https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/858/42/Amt ... 8-2017.pdf
April 28, 2017
New Jersey Legislature Joint Hearing

What is the likelihood that Amtrak as a portion of it's 'burden sharing,' in terms of schedule adjustments, would temporarily relocate the Empire Service to GCT? Would this be even operationally/technically possible? One issue would be the compatibility of Amtrak's P32s with the under-running 3rd rail along with potentially finding track space.

There is no one left in Albany that is qualified into GCT. Last engineer retired 15yrs ago. Pilots would be needed from/to Yonkers. Talking with a couple of MNRR RFEs detours like this are a PIA for MNRR crews and management. Lets not forget the question of food service for the LSL, Adirondak and Maple Leaf.

Would honestly prob. be easier to terminate a couple of Empire Service trains at Yonkers and run a dedicated MNR shuttle Yonkers-GCT.

Amtrak P32's would be obviated for GCT service as their DC shoes are not compatible, and their P32's don't have nose doors/escape hatches. They'd have to use MNRR P32's. It would be a good time to do an overhaul / critical repair on their P32 fleet.

Allow me to acknowledge, I have some degree of Gephyrophobia, or the fear of bridges and tunnels. While residing in the Chicago area, it is not much of an issue, but when "out East" as I am several times a year, I'm just as glad to be over George or Tappan Zee and even the Morano at Cos Cob on I-95 (remember 1983, anyone?). Also, riding the Stamford Local as a kid, the open traps and "nothing but water" to be seen Eastward X-ing the Mianus was a "non-fun".

While mine is mild to passing, somebody on Amtrak or NJT is going to freak out. I only hope that powers that be will forego photo ops and spend the $$ on what really counts - what's down below.

Ridgefielder wrote:Would honestly prob. be easier to terminate a couple of Empire Service trains at Yonkers and run a dedicated MNR shuttle Yonkers-GCT.

Another theory/possibility/just-a-thought, perhaps they could reduce the amount of Empire trains during track-work days. Keep the LSL & ADK (maybe add a car or two to the ADK to compensate for passengers shifted from Empire trains), but just temporarily run the Empire trains at a lower frequency to give track crews a little breathing room. This could also open up the opportunity to get the rougher of the dual modes some shop time since less units would be needed to cover the laxer schedule.

The only issue I can see with terminating trains at Yonkers is they'd have no way to turn unless running pull-pull or if they ran down to MO to wye or Sunnyside to loop (defeating the purpose). Maybe run trains to Croton instead? Either run pull-pull or keep a unit on site facing north. I'm sure CSX wouldn't be completely adverse to Amtrak using their yard for day time storage of layovers, if only using a track or two.

I'm in no way an expert or anything, just a buff throwing ideas out, haha

I cannot recall a time when I've taken any Empire Service train (Weekday, Weekend, Peak, Off-Peak) that was not packed. Plus, I have to imagine that Cuomo and the other political critters would cry bloody murder if their access to NYC from ALB was severely impacted. Given that there are no other alternatives, unlike Trenton (which has both NJT and Amtrak service), would imagine most of the Empire schedule stays in some form (either terminating at CRO/Yonkers or finding some way into GCT).

I would think wyeing at MO would be less of an imposition on MNRR than running into GCT and tying up equipment (adding an MNRR P32). However, I also don't think anyone is going to want to transfer to MNRR equipment on an MNRR "special", since it's commuter equipment in 3/2 whether an M series or Shoreliner, and tying up even more MNRR equipment. If a detour goes to GCT, I think the least impact would be adding the P32. But you've got to squeeze them into slots, then, don't you? Track wise, I think you'd use the upper loop. Amtrak could set up temporary shop in the old LD room. I know I've seen this question before in the MNRR forum, but could you use the upper loop in revenue service? This would obviate the need to back the train into a departure tracks.