Official Conway Scenic Railroad Thread (CSRR) -2009

[eman577]

There would be NO Conway Scenic Railroad if the State of New hampshire hadn't bought all the line when it was abandoned. And beyond that the state pumps money into maintenance on a regular basis. So who's the State of New Hampshire?

sandyriverman, The Conway Scenic existed LONG before the state bought the Mountain Sub.
CSRR purchased, directly from the B&M, 7 miles of track; from the Conway/ALbany town
line, to Intervale. The state was never involved in the purchase, maintenance or operation
of this segment of track.

[CSRR bought the line direct from B&M in 1974 - Ed.]

[Otto Vondrak]

Well I think its quite presumptuous for a person who doesn't even know me to tell me what I ought to be ashamed of myself for. Thank you sir....I would just hate to see the CSR turn into something only the well-heeled can do because I know a whole lot of people who love trains that don't have a whole lot of money.

Okay, I think you're all missing the point. Sandyriverman, the "paid" photo shoot was something people signed up for months ago. It was staged by professionals who go around chartering railroads all over the country, setting up special vintage scenes just for the photographers who paid for the trip. The charter company arranges for equipment to be positioned and cleaned and sometimes painted, they sometimes hire actors to pose as brakemen, passengers, etc. They provide the professional synchronized flash lighting. These events are not made to be exclusionary. The people are paying for these scenes to be set up for them. That's why it's a chartered photo freight.

It's good that you support the railroad by buying stuff from the gift shop. No one is claiming otherwise. At least, I'm not.

[sandyriverman]

We work in the tourist industry here and believe me the prevailing wage is $8/hr as I said. A frequent lament by the locals is that they cannot afford to utilize the activities that they support with their labors. The local paper, in its letters section, often prints someone's complaint about the high- and getting higher, cost of riding the train.

I grew up on the coast of Maine and watched it become a place only the wealty can own and live in. Meanwhile the po folks live in the woods in their trailers.

I am alway sensitive to this issue as I hate to see more things turn into playgrounds for only those who can pay and the rest of us can just get out of the way.

Of course the CSR has the right to charter its equipment for whatever. I know it needs income. Have no problem with that.

The photo shoot was billed as "private" and those who didn't pay should stay away thank you. Mr Trainnut takes it even further and proceeds to tell me that I ought to be ashamed of myself and I should stay away so that I didn't ruin the shots of him and his well to do buds.

Sounds sorta exclusionary to me.

Whether you like it or not the NHDOT spends money on railroad tracks as it is proud of its rail heritage. The NHDOT bridge crew did work on Willey Brook Bridge and other things this late summer and fall. I am pretty sure that money is made available to help with maintenance. So the citizens of the state of NH have a vested interest in this enterprise. The CSR would have it tougher maintenance-wise without this support.

From a purely public relations point the railroad needs friends and community support always. I think to alienate folks is not a smart thing to do. Maybe this could have been done a bit more diplomatically I think other than the "keep out" blurp that I read in the paper.

As long as I am an American citizen I will take a photograph anything I like from any place on Public property. If mr Trainnut doesn't like that then HE can stay away.

[Mikejf]

Once again Sandyriverman, you missed it. Otto understands my point.

But I will stand behind my original statement but will add something just for you. If you were at home and filmed the charter going by, good for you. Even if you took pictures and filmed it someplace else, good for you. If you joined in the organized photo line someplace else, shame on you. Weather the State of New Hampshire owns the tracks or not is of no matter here. Someone went through the trouble to set that up for people who would like to participate. They should be supported for their efforts. Without those paying patrons, there would have been no train. And BTW, I was not one of them.
Mike

[Otto Vondrak]

I think this is turning into a big misunderstanding where sandyriverman thinks we're trying to keep him out of some exclusive railfan club. We're not.

The photo shoot was billed as "private" and those who didn't pay should stay away thank you... Mr Trainnut takes it even further and proceeds to tell me that I ought to be ashamed of myself and I should stay away so that I didn't ruin the shots of him and his well to do buds. Sounds sorta exclusionary to me.

Again, I think you're missing the point. It's like crashing a wedding you weren't invited to. Yes, the photo shoot was indeed private, and yes, if you didn't pay, you should indeed stay away. People paid the charter operator (CONWAY SCENIC was NOT the CHARTER OPERATOR. LERRO PRODUCTIONS was the CHARTER OPERATOR) to set up these trains and scenes to photograph. The charter was operated for people who want to pay the cost of setting up the trains and lighting. If you're not willing to pay, why should you benefit from the work that was put into the event?

These charters are the real thing: http://www.lerroproductions.com/photocharters.html

Another example: Railroad museums and tourist operations do "Railfan Day" events all the time. You pay a small fee, and you get to enjoy the railroad all day while they set up equipment and take you to various locations for photographs. Are those exclusionary, too?

As long as I am an American citizen I will take a photograph anything I like from any place on Public property. If mr Trainnut doesn't like that then HE can stay away.

You are certainly free to do so. The Conway Scenic and none of us are trying to shut you out from the trains. I don't think you're intentionally trying to crash anyone's party. I also don't think anyone is trying to keep you "out." But it's in poor taste to *intentionally* "poach" a special event you didn't pay for.

I ran a photo charter with an Alco in Kingston, NY last April. It was well attended, 10 photographers each paid $50 to "rent" the railroad for the day, and we took many shots throughout the city. (before you ask, all the money went to the railroad, I did not keep anything.) Now, we were running through the city, with plenty of public access roads and crossings. I noticed that at one or two photo stops, some local citizens stopped with us to take some snapshots. I noticed at one photo stop, a "professional" railfan was camped out waiting for our train. He took pictures right along side us. Can I be angry at any of those people? No, not really. Can I be mad at curious citizens who want to see the train? No, that's what we're there for. Can I be upset with a "professional" railfan who obviously knows better? Maybe. In the end, am I losing any sleep?

Nope.

-otto-

[NHN503]

Guys, you all missed the point of "paying" so just move on please.

We work in the tourist industry here and believe me the prevailing wage is $8/hr as I said. A frequent lament by the locals is that they cannot afford to utilize the activities that they support with their labors. The local paper, in its letters section, often prints someone's complaint about the high- and getting higher, cost of riding the train.

Well first off, thats the Conway Daily Scum....I don't believe a DAMN thing that prints. They tend to print a lot of s#&! because they have an agenda that is very obvious. They seem to love to sent Nate out to get the "scoop" so that he can twist the words. Living and working up here I know exactly what you are talking about, but all of these NY, MA, CT, RI plates can pony up if they want the fun. They drove up here, so they can't complain about the cost. Don't like it, don't come. The local businesses have no problem telling these people to pound sand, but the local Reps for Conway bend over for them. Remember that lady from CT last year who wrote the CDS saying that the Saco River was SOOO dangerous that it should be posted and that she should sue the lady at the place where she rented the canoe from?

Otto - All state lines go up for bid. While it would seem obvious that CSRR would run it, if anyone of those other groups that everyone mentioned here (thanks for posting that guys) offered more (as well as been able to operate it) they would have got it. I think the contracts are 10 years, so there is always a chance that CSRR could loose it to someone else. Much like NEGS's lease on the White Mountain branch to Laconia, if someone bids higher in 4 years, they could end up running it.


For what the Conway Daily Scum is worth, they have been doing some articles on the B&M ski trains this week. Also the New England Ski Museum will be doing a presentation on Ski Trains this weekend.
http://www.laconiadailysun.com/pdf/2009/1/3.pdf
http://www.laconiadailysun.com/pdf/2009/1/6.pdf

[44 tonner]

I noticed the articles in the paper, on friday, everyone at school was skiing, lol. I can't so, ya.

[GrizzlyFlatsFilms]

I couldn't make it to "Steam in the Snow" or the photo charter last weekend, but I did manage to attend Snow Train Weekend this past Saturday (my video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmZ4Ad9lGbw ). Are we safe to assume the Mass. Bay club will charter an excursion next winter as well? I really don't want to miss it again...

Didn't hear if they've picked a name for the new dining car yet. Any news?

[merrman]

Although this weekend's Snow Train was a rare event, like many other occasions, it is not unprecedented.
The history of the Conway Scenic Railroad has been blessed with many significant and noteworthy events. On February 14, 1989, a one-day re-creation of the famous "Snow Train" of the past was operated to celebrate the 50th Anniversary of the arrival of famed Austrian Skimeister Hannes Schneider and his family. Mr. Schneider opened a ski school on nearby Mt. Cranmore, where the unique Skimobile operated for over 50 years. Dignitaries and invited guests were aboard as steam locomotive No. 7470 arrived at North Conway on that cold Saturday morning to commemorate the event. Later that day three steam-powered round trips to Conway were sold out as everyone climbed aboard to re-live those earlier days.

[Mikejf]

I think they did the ski train recreation again this weekend. It is really a great commitment by Conway Scenic to keep things going this winter. Occasional winter railroading is not easy.

[Otto Vondrak]

Forgive me if this has been asked before... but has there ever been a consideration to run seasonal service between North Conway and Attitash Mountain? Seems like there could be brisk business hauling vacationers from the hotels to slopeside. Probably reduce traffic on 302, as well.

Now tell me why they can't!

[eman577]

I believe Attitash trains were once considered; there's even a platform there.
But the numbers wouldn't support the service if I remember hearing the story
correctly. Too inconvenient to drive to the RR from a hotel, load everything
onto a train, then get off and unload, only to repeat the process at the end of
the day; and have to be at the mercy of a train schedule. People like their
convenience when they are on vacation. Besides you can drive there cheaper
than ride a train.

[Otto Vondrak]

I believe Attitash trains were once considered; there's even a platform there. But the numbers wouldn't support the service if I remember hearing the story correctly. Too inconvenient to drive to the RR from a hotel, load everything
onto a train, then get off and unload, only to repeat the process at the end of the day; and have to be at the mercy of a train schedule. People like their convenience when they are on vacation. Besides you can drive there cheaper than ride a train.

Of course, in a perfect world, I envision a shuttle bus running from the North Conway hotels to the station, and as far as being at the "mercy" of the train schedule I assume they would be tailored to suit the needs of skiers. Of course, it might be a lot of trouble just to take a couple hundred cars off the highway, but then again, it might be worth considering... well, moot point, I'm not on the board that makes these decisions! There's probably a good reason why they choose not to.

[daylight4449]

The Notch train does not go beyond Fabyans because: 1. Time constraints, and 2. Because there is no
place to run around west of Fayans. Besides, the scenery out that far can't compare to the Notch.

well, the tracks do run at least a mile past fabians, and you could just use fabians as a tranfer point for a run on the RDC up to QJ and back.

[eman577]

The tracks go, in fact, 12 miles beyond Fabyans. But still not worth the time it would take,
and the boredom it would produce for the average tourist, to go that far. Railfans may like
the extra mileage, but they make up a very small percentage of the customer base.