Official Belfast & Moosehead Lake Thread - 2009

[Cosmo]

Wow!
I remember seeing that plow up there way back in '95 or '96!
I'm glad it's still thete. Hope someone can give it the TLC it needs!

[JCitron]

Having never ridden the B&ML, I can't tell what needed improvement, but I can tell you when the beginning of the end was. When the City kicked the railroad out, that was the beginning of the end. The railroad served that community well and when it stopped, they kicked them out. Plain and simple. I still think that if the city would have had patience, they would have seen the B&ML come back. Maybe a little reorganization would have helped. Not being involved, I can't honestly say.
What ever they do, I wish them luck. They don't need to be historic to provide a scenic ride through the woods.

And gokeefe,WW&F stands for Wiscasset, Waterville and Farmington Railway.http://www.wwfry.org/

Mike

I agree with you, Mike. My feeling is the city had big ideas and greedy developers that wanted the waterfront property for big condos and tourists. If they had worked with the railroad and incorporated their development ideas instead of forcing them out, things may have been different, but developers being developers, they sold the city a bill of goods and forced the railroad out in an all or nothing quick sweep. As far as I can tell by the pictures, not much has been done with the land that they aquired.

I haven't been up in that area in years so I don't know how much of the old ROW is still accessible by rail, but if it were possible it would be nice if the railroad could come back to its home and namesake city again.

John

[calaisbranch]

I get down that way quite a bit to service the Weathervane restaurant. I laugh every time I see that the old Stinson Plant hasn't had a thing done to it in nearly a year. The building was gutted, and left to rot. The old B&ML buildings still stand, as does the ROW just below and north of the Route 1/3 overpass. Yeah, kick out the railroad for that big development boom that never happened. Bet the tourists would have appreciated a ride on the old "Bull Moose"
instead of looking at the hulk of a building that stands at the end of the refurbished pedestiran bridge. To the ones in Belfast who decided the fate of the B&ML, reap what you sow!

[b&m 1566]

Just maybe (if where lucky) in due time as the city government changes they may see the railroad as a delightful tourist destination and reconsider the option to bring the railroad back. I’m not holding my breath though; in ten years the city might decide to build a paved bike path on the ROW.

[Channing]

Missing snow plow. Yes the wood snowplow is sitting in my yard in Thorndike 52 Mill Rd along with my other cars. I don't know when it's owner Bill is going to get motavated. I am spending my time on my MOW car at this point. Channing

[gokeefe]

Looks like City Point Central Railroad Museum and Brooks Preservation Society have managed to return passenger operations to B&ML trackage, against pretty high odds it would seem.

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?20090706212056325.jpg

[Cowford]

And traditions come to an end. Let the Swedish steamer die. Let the BML be BML.

Agreed: Let the BML be the BML and die already. To MEC407's point, it's a tedious trip through unremarkable woods. YAWN! How many daisy pickers would honestly appreciate such a trip? There's no freight on the line. There's never (in our lifetimes)going to be any freight potential on the line. Even the Maine DOT would agree that there's no potential in "real" commuter/passenger service. (Monthly passes between Thorndike and Knox, anyone?) The line boasts no significant engineering achievement, history, or link with the past. Heck, the MEC didn't see value in the property 80+ years ago, and it wasn't much more than a marginal chicken feed hauler for decades until the broiler industry moved south.

Pretty up a 70-tonner, put it on display with a plaque and salvage the line. Preservation efforts could be put to better use elsewhere.

[gokeefe]

Mr. Cowford!

Good to see you again. It's been awhile. I spent some time thinking about how seemingly useless the B&ML is in its present state and its recent incarnations, and yet she refuses to die! I think the only reason the line hasn't been dismantled yet, as opposed to the fate of the Calais Branch, is at least in part because of the long history of the B&ML and the success of the operation even after divestiture by the Maine Central Railroad of the property in the late 1970's and 1980's, a time period in which it's easterly cousin in Calais was beginning its long slow death.

I also think certain creative and inquiring minds at Maine DOT know this is the only rail corridor to Belfast. Although 'real' commuter service really isn't ever going to be a reality because of the northwesterly, as opposed to southwesterly orientation of the line (towards Augusta instead of towards Burnham and onward ho! to Mooshead Lake...someday) I think they are still reluctant to destroy a Right of Way and physical plant that may prove impossible to rebuild in the future.

The B&ML is analogous to US Route 2 the way the Maine Eastern Rockland branch is analogous to US Route 1. Obviously US Route 2 is an important transportation corridor across Maine and is one of our only primary East-West highways however just because its there doesn't mean that points A & B are necessarily important, just that they are connected and reasonably accessible.

In terms of the destinations offerred to passengers departing from Belfast, could the B&ML be best described as Maine's "Railroad to Nowhere"? I think this is possible when excluding extreme examples up in Eagle Lake and the North Maine Woods.

Perhaps the simple fact of the matter is that Maine DOT is unwilling to destroy a railroad that is still in maintainable shape. Why tear something down that can still be brought back, 'just in case'. If Belfast ever become a cruise destination, in the same way that Bar Harbor and Rockland (both destinations with nearby rail service of some kind), then perhaps this forward thinking will pay off. At least for now if hardly costs them anything to maintain this asset.

[calaisbranch]

Check out this site for the Brooks Historical Society.

http://www.brookspreservation.org

I went by Brooks this past weekend and saw quite a few people at the depot with #53 in the background. That day, three trains were to run from Brooks to Waldo. They already have planned specials to Burnham Junction. Personally, I think it's kind of funny that some small outfit like BPS can bring the train within hearing distance of Belfast while the latter's "modernizing"projects on the waterfront are seemingly dead for now. How 'bout that old Stinson factory rehab?! That's going real well! Meanwhile, the "new" B&ML RAILWAY plods along. Good for them!
Also, it's awesome to see some are back to offer swan song play-by-plays for another branch "to nowhere." We know you're "realists," but go offer your factoid downers somewhere else. This country would never be where it is if realists were all that were around to run it.

[gokeefe]

Check out this site for the Brooks Historical Society.

http://www.brookspreservation.org

I went by Brooks this past weekend and saw quite a few people at the depot with #53 in the background. That day, three trains were to run from Brooks to Waldo. They already have planned specials to Burnham Junction. Personally, I think it's kind of funny that some small outfit like BPS can bring the train within hearing distance of Belfast while the latter's "modernizing"projects on the waterfront are seemingly dead for now. How 'bout that old Stinson factory rehab?! That's going real well! Meanwhile, the "new" B&ML RAILWAY plods along. Good for them!
Also, it's awesome to see some are back to offer swan song play-by-plays for another branch "to nowhere." We know you're "realists," but go offer your factoid downers somewhere else. This country would never be where it is if realists were all that were around to run it.

I think its great they're still there. Quite frankly I'm impressed at the level of support that railroad continues to generate given their location. This railroad more than an other lives by the 'Journey is the Destination' saying.

Despite all of these great things the preservation effort doesn't seem to answer the question "What is the Future for the B&ML branch line?" To me it is inconceivable that such a small operation can survive, especially when they really don't have the manpower or the funding to conduct track maintenance. Please inform me otherwise if I'm wrong, but that's my impression.

As a counter example, the nearby Wiscasset, Waterville and Farmington Railway, WW&F, http://www.wwfry.org/, has been a sucess precisely because the directly address the issue of the physical plant head on. They build new track and maintain the rest of it to very high standards with the help of a massive groups of volunteers and some donors who can help 'make it happen'.

If City Point Central and the Brooks Preservation Society do the same thing then that Fantastic, because to date no other mainline preservation effort in Maine has ever suceeded and several narrow gauge efforts have either failed or met with severe financial difficulty.

I wish them the best and hope things go well for their efforts. Ideally if they can people in their organization should do some long term planning and think about maintaining the track structure. You can bet your last nickel that Maine DOT isn't going to have extra funds available to do anything for this line in the near future.

[Channing]

And do you know for a fact that The American Recovery and Reinvestment act of 2009 IS not going to help the B&ML. We need a point man.

[gokeefe]

And do you know for a fact that The American Recovery and Reinvestment act of 2009 IS not going to help the B&ML. We need a point man.

Maine DOT has not applied for stimulus funding for the B&ML:

http://www.maine.gov/mdot/recovery/proj ... /index.htm

Here's a recent Portland Press Herald article:

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story ... 0&ac=PHnws

Maine, N.H. seek millions to repair bridges
The states are applying for stimulus money to fix two spans over the Piscataqua River.
By BETH QUIMBY, Staff Writer

July 8, 2009

...

Maine is applying for $25 million for the Caribou highway connector project and $93 million for improvements to ports and railways, including a $30 million rail connection and improvements along Portland's waterfront.

No mention of the B&ML in this Forecaster artile:

http://www.theforecaster.net/node/15309

Downeaster faces uphill battle as Maine rail projects vie for funding
Published: May 12, 2009 8:00 am -

...

The new law takes a portion of the state's rental car usage tax and puts it into an account for rail projects. It was pushed by advocates hoping to rehabilitate railroad tracks between Portland and Brunswick, a $35 million project. NNEPRA, which runs the Downeaster, was among the main proponents because renovating the tracks would allow passenger train service to be extended to Brunswick.

[Cowford]

I have no problem with leaving the rail line intact and dormant. Its scrap value is minimal, and I'm not aware of any public demand to convert it into a rail trail. So if you want to "bank" the branch, have at it. But remember: BML died a normal death - their freight went away never to return, so the trains stopped running. The line has zero freight potential now and will never be put back in service unless some significant rail-oriented industry is built on-line. Given Maine's attitude towards heavy industry, even crack-induced visionaries wouldn't bet on that ever happening.

As for the Brooks Historical Society - if they can make a go of it with private donations and ticket revenue, more power to 'em. What I would object to is ANY public funding (especially with federal dollars, and that goes double for stimulus funding!) to prop up continued operations or infrastructure improvements. Pouring public dollars into that line would result in essentially zero public benefit. And keep in mind one other downside of BML operations: it essentially harms neighboring tourist lines. There are X tourists in Maine per year with Y dollars to spend and Z time to spend it. Let's say that the average tourist hits all the coastal hotspots... it's unlikely that they are going to want to ride the Boothbay, Maine Coast, WWF, BML, and Downeast Scenic; they'd choose, at most, one from the selection. If they decide to go with the BML, they are, in effect, detracting from the viability of the others.

[gokeefe]

Mr. Cowford,

I agree with all of your points except one.

I'm not entirely sure that B&ML/BPS is stealing market share from other scenic tourist operations. Given that many tourists to the State seem to visit one area in particular I think it's debatable whether or not their existence siphons revenue from other lines. Only in situations where a tourist is close to the B&ML and chooses to patronize them instead of another operation such as WW&F Rwy. to the south or DESR to the north east is there really a loss.

However I do think there might be something to the idea that there is a limited amount of charitable capital availalble in a given year towards donations for historic railroad preservation in Maine, as well as a limited pool of volunteers who would consider putting time into an operation of than one in particular. On this point I think the existence of the B&ML/BPS operation very likely does have an effect on annual totals of cash gifts and volunteer labor hours elsewhere.

Having said that I have noticed that BPS and the City Point Central Railroad pretty much seemed to develop on their own without outside influence and emerge around the time of the final B&ML demise. This leads me to believe that for whatever reason there is a heavily committed group of volunteers and donors, a cluster if you will, that are a legacy of the longtime B&ML operation. These are people who, in my impression, would have committed to B&ML operations of any kind as long as they could. We see the results now. It will be interesting to see if they are able to advance the cause of their line over time in such a way that is beneficial to their area.

[calaisbranch]

Cowford,

You wanna hit on me that hard about the skirt, let's at least have dinner and a movie first. Enough said on the personal level.

No customers on B&ML? They haven't had any in like....20+ years! As with any, I think the B&ML RAILWAY does a lot more for the area than a dormant line. Personally, I think it's awesome how it's held on all this time after freight disappeared. Funny when compared to the Calais Branch. The latter hadn't TOTALLY lost all it's traffic yet. Not to mention, it was way longer in miles and was seemingly way more of an impact for the area it covered. Along with the Downeast Scenic, at least we can have a historic relic of each line to go by with the B&ML. Maine has plenty of forgotten lines already.