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  • Norfolk Southern Sells Washington Secondary to New Jersey Transit

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, Kaback9, nick11a

 #1624057  by Jeff Smith
 
https://dcms-external.s3.amazonaws.com/ ... /51757.pdf
The New Jersey Transit Corporation (NJ Transit), a noncarrier, has filed a
verified notice of exemption under 49 C.F.R. § 1150.31 to acquire from Norfolk
Southern Railway Company (NSR) an approximately 9.15-mile portion of the property
commonly known as the Washington Secondary Track in Morris and Warren Counties,
N.J., from milepost 48.1 to milepost 57.25 (the Line). NJ Transit states that, under the
proposed transaction, it would acquire ownership of the Line and NSR would retain an
exclusive freight easement preserving NSR’s ability to operate freight service on the
entire Washington Secondary Track.

NJ Transit states that usage of the Line will continue to be governed by the
trackage rights agreement (the 1984 Agreement) between NJ Transit and NSR’s
predecessor, the Consolidated Rail Corporation.2 According to NJ Transit, it is acquiring
the property to support its commuter rail operations.

NJ Transit certifies that the proposed transaction does not involve a provision or
agreement that would limit future interchange with a third-party connecting carrier. NJ
Transit also certifies that, because it will not conduct any rail carrier operations on the
Line, its projected annual revenues will not exceed $5 million and will not result in the
creation of a Class I or Class II carrier.

NJ Transit states that it will consummate the proposed transaction following
completion of the proceedings at the Board related to this notice and the related motion
to dismiss. The earliest this transaction may be consummated is June 29, 2023, the
effective date of the exemption (30 days after the verified notice of exemption was
filed).
 #1624254  by lensovet
 
If Wikipedia's mile posts are correct, this corresponds to Lake Hopatcong to Hackettstown.

I do wonder if this is an indication that NJT is thinking of increasing service frequencies past Dover? Perhaps once the second tunnel is finally built?
 #1628485  by lensovet
 
They have?

Hackettstown’s 2020 population was below 2000’s. Washington Borough + Twp gained about 750 residents over the same time period (so about 38 people per year). Phillipsburg gained about 100 residents in 2 decades, an increase of less than 1%.

Phillipsburg’s population peaked in 1930 and has gone down almost every decade since.

I’m not sure that this qualifies as “considerable” growth.
 #1628502  by Roadgeek Adam
 
Lack of development of the communities aside......what convenience is there to that? RVL would be faster if an extension were in the cards (I don't think it should be, maybe Hampton) or driving would be faster than the 2+ hours it would take to go from Phillipsburg to Washington to Hackettstown to Dover to [whichever route it takes] to Newark Broad Street to Manhattan. It already takes close to or over 2 hours for Hackettstown to Hoboken. The return on investment runs out. Also, NJT isn't rebuilding the Changewater trestle to necessitate service via the RVL to Washington.
 #1628527  by Ken W2KB
 
The local county area transportation advocacy groups support extending Raritan Valley Line service west to the existing Exit 7 on I-78. The former CNJ line is there and intact from High Bridge to reach it. Extending west of there would not make sense as the line is not intact, there is no convenient access from I-78 to the rail line and no land for a large park and ride facility. Exit 7 as is will accommodate vehicles and there is adequate vacant land to build a station with large parking lot. The Exit 7 location is also west of Jugtown Mountain's very steep grades on I-78 which are problematic in adverse weather conditions. An intermediate station at Hampton would be convenient to the Route 31 corridor. The extension would require only improving the track and installing signals, far less expensive than many other projects.
 #1628546  by MaRoFu
 
Ken W2KB wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 4:39 pm The local county area transportation advocacy groups support extending Raritan Valley Line service west to the existing Exit 7 on I-78. The former CNJ line is there and intact from High Bridge to reach it. Extending west of there would not make sense as the line is not intact, there is no convenient access from I-78 to the rail line and no land for a large park and ride facility. Exit 7 as is will accommodate vehicles and there is adequate vacant land to build a station with large parking lot. The Exit 7 location is also west of Jugtown Mountain's very steep grades on I-78 which are problematic in adverse weather conditions. An intermediate station at Hampton would be convenient to the Route 31 corridor. The extension would require only improving the track and installing signals, far less expensive than many other projects.
Trains can still go to Phillipsburg and beyond, it’s just that they have to run on the old LVRR, which of course causes the problem of conflicts with NS. And even then, the old CRRNJ ROW around Phillipsburg is still mostly intact, surely it isn’t impossible to build a new bridge over I-78…

And as for the line from Hackettstown, we’re probably only gonna see trains extended to Washington unless something draws people to want to commute to the Lehigh Valley. I am of the strong opinion that the option should be there anyways regardless of demand, but that’s wishful thinking…
 #1628548  by Roadgeek Adam
 
I just wonder if the money in return is gonna be worth the investment to extending service to Bloomsbury/Vulcanite/Phillipsburg area in any fashion. Amtrak would probably help with that ABE service they are proposing. I don't know. If I'm a Washington resident and I can either a) take a train via Hackettstown that takes almost 2.5+ hr to get to Hoboken, or get in my car, drive to High Bridge or Annandale to take a train that gets me to Newark for a 20min ride by PATH or NJT in 90-100min, I'm gonna take the quicker option every time. Obviously if the Changewater trestle still stood we would have an easier discussion. I just can't see Washington-Hoboken being ever a profitable approach.

I certainly welcome if NJT wants to extend service to Phillipsburg. I just wonder if it should be considered a priority to get done west of Hampton and Glen Gardner.
 #1628555  by sandcastle
 
There seems to be a change with developers in NJ. They are building high-density housing near existing high-density infrastructure while avoiding undeveloped rural areas. Such housing has been built with a scenic view of route 80 and reached Netcong a few years ago. By taking ownership of the tracks, does this provide NJTransit with immediate ways to increase service beyond the Port Morris yard?

Developers are also converting former corporate campuses into residential town-home communities in the Morristown area. As 9-5 employers, these former campuses fit well with their residential neighbors. With a more global schedule, I wonder the next station, Mount Olive, is ideal for mixed use developments that built in the fast growing parts of the country. It already has retail, restaurant, and services so if the warehousing parts of the International Trade Center are gentrified to office and apartment buildings, it could resemble one of those newer cities with a great road network plus commuter rail.

This would ideal scenario for NJ Transit as its existing operations could carry more passengers west. If such a mixed use 'city' is developed, Phillipsburg and Lehigh Valley seems to be a better match for NJ than Scranton. From the looks of it, the rail route is shorter than rt 78 to 287.
 #1628601  by Ken W2KB
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 6:31 pm Portions of the CNJ were severed when the I-78 bridge was built in the late 80s (opened late 1989).
Which is a major reason why the advocacy groups suggest going to I-78 Exit 7 since the line is severed west of there and would require a much larger sum of money to build and not convenient to any large passenger groups versus a park and ride station at Exit 7
 #1628759  by Roadgeek Adam
 
Ken W2KB wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 1:44 pm
R36 Combine Coach wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 6:31 pm Portions of the CNJ were severed when the I-78 bridge was built in the late 80s (opened late 1989).
Which is a major reason why the advocacy groups suggest going to I-78 Exit 7 since the line is severed west of there and would require a much larger sum of money to build and not convenient to any large passenger groups versus a park and ride station at Exit 7
NJ Transit doesn't really seem to be big on those park and ride terminals some other railroads do (ie Metra). It's not a bad idea in theory. If NJT ever took over passenger service to Butler, I'd do one at Charlotteburgh for Route 23 traffic. But it's not their style. Maybe they'd do it.
 #1628766  by MaRoFu
 
I’m not exactly the biggest fan of park and ride type stations (especially ones isolated from residential/business areas) in general. I’d greatly prefer Phillipsburg and beyond (A/B/E) via either the LVR or by reconstructing the old RVL with a new bridge over I-78, but I guess whatever is more effective at getting people on the train is better. Maybe one of the new stations (Hampton?) can be an option for commuters driving from Washington as opposed to making them ride the long slog via the Secondary and M&E.
 #1628769  by lensovet
 
Can you really blame NJT regarding P&Rs?

Mt. Arlington's weekday ridership was under half of the parking spaces. Ramsey Route 17 similarly was never at capacity. Wayne Route 23 has a 1k parking garage with daily ridership of 100 riders per day.

If someone is getting in the car and driving anyway, they definitely don't want to spend another hour on the train, especially if it also involves a transfer.