NJT locos on Amtrak

Well, that post just lost me a little bit, but whatever....

TR was heavily involved in the designing and acceptance of the ALP 46. I have heard of the '46's being run at speeds around 120 (and sometimes higher) in acceptance testing, but never heard the 135 - wow!!!! I knew those test trains were flying when they would pass revenue trains!

They are not going to build the motor where its limit and maximum output is 100 miles an hour. They will overbuild it so its not always "redlined" (to use an internal combustion engine term). The engine is probably quite capable of running at 120mph all day with no problems, but NJT doesn't operate equipment that can go faster than 100, so why would they make the speed limit faster than 100???

Also, im sure NJT isn't going to happily raise the speed limit of the '46's for Amtrak so their trains can go faster, while Amtrak still has the 90 mph restriction on the Comet 5's. The '46's are mainly used on the clocker service, which the people who ride it better get used to the slower speeds because in a few years when its going to be run with NJT equipment, guess what speed its going to be.....100 or maybe even 90 if there is a C5 in there (if they don't raise it by then)

Damn, the 46 is really an impressive motor!!

Oh yea one more thing.......The gearing on a 46 is fine the way it is....maybe its current gearing allows for 120 plus operation, (I think it does) i dunno, but if NJT were to lower the gearing any more to really limit the speeds to 100, the motor would accelorate even faster, probably causeing lots more wheelslip problems and would definately make lots of trains very early. A 46 with 8 cars compared to a 44 with 8 cars is a tremendous difference. A 46 will get ahead of schedule if your not careful, while the 44 can barely keep it. Trains could be sitting at some stops for a few minutes because they are too early!!!!

Remember, NJT makes the schedule for the slowest equipment.

<i>A 46 will get ahead of schedule if your not careful, while the 44 can barely keep it. Trains could be sitting at some stops for a few minutes because they are too early!!!! </I>

Am I the only one here who's thinking "Well, then tighten up the ^^$^$ Schedule!!!!" ??

<i>Remember, NJT makes the schedule for the slowest equipment.</i>

I'm guessing it's too much trouble for MMC, etc to figure out how to put MUs on locals, 44s on long NEC expresses, and 46s on semi expresses?

No, your not the only one thinking that - definately not.....

All NJT needs to do is put the 46's on the 8 and 10 car trains, adn the 44's on the 6 car trains, and they could tighten up the schedules a smidge.

MU's can't be used for "locals" on anything other than going in and out of Hoboken to Gladstone or Dover or back adn forth to Trenton and S. Amboy. A "Long Branch" or "Midtown Dover or Montclair" local MUST be pushpulls because of the voltage changes

Good point about the wheel slip Jt. I have heard the 46s have wheelslip problems a few times with 8 car trains and DAMN is it loud.

Ok,
think what you want and come back to reallity, I know the limits, and above 110mph daily, everything would be ok, ONLY the rotor cage of the AC motor wouldn't. Thats fact, and nobody at Bombardier will give any permission for more.
Once again: It was offered to NJT, to go beyond the 100mph, but they prefered 71000lbs starting tractive effort instead of 125mph.
So there was a redesign of the class 101 gear and motor to encrease the traction effort and decrease the speed.
(And in addition, the ALP46 has only 7100hp, the class101 in germany about 8000hp (but the ALP46 has 1100kW HEP power!))
And so the drive system was not designed for permanent use above 100mph (110 are possible , but not given free, because not tested , and this because not be payed for).

Ask the Bombardier crew at the MMC and they will tell you the same.

Nice day

Catch

So the basic point here is that the limiting factor is the traction motors? If that is the case, then to increase the maximum speed for the locomotive, one would need only install new traction motors geared for higher speed operation. I know with the diesels their maximum speed is determined by the traction motors, with different gear ratios allowing for higher speed, or more pulling effort.

"And in addition, the ALP46 has only 7100hp, the class101 in germany about 8000hp (but the ALP46 has 1100kW HEP power!"

Does the ALP46 have 7100 hp total, and HEP is subtracted from that?

7100 hp is the continuous rating, at the rail? And it can exceed that during acceleration?

Yep!

New ac motors (only the rotors!) and 125mph would be ok after approval tests and so on (the normal procedure...)

And the 7100hp are only traction, the 1100kW HEP are separate. E.g. the transformer has 4 secondary windings with 1500kVA each. But there is a little derating of the traction power at the converter which feeding the HEP, if you must provide full HEP. Then you have a few hps less than 3550 at the corresponding truck.

Hope this will clear something.

Nice day

Catch

I wonder how the ALP-46 compares with the HHP-8 in terms of acceleration. The HHP-8, of course, runs at 125 mph and I believe is capable of at least 150 mph!

Are MARC's HHP-8's geared the same as Amtrak's? Is MARC happy with their performance in commuter service?

Hello hsr_fan,

Both have 71000lbs starting effort, but HHP-8 has single axle drive, and the ALP46 truck control. But the main difference are normaly the track conditions AND the adhesion control, then you have a result. On the paper, from 0 up to 30 mph, there should be no difference.