NJT - Expanding/Opening New Terminals?

In a discussion on the MOM thread, there was talk about how NJT needs more terminals in northern NJ, besides Newark Penn, NY Penn, and Hoboken.

When the Gateway Tunnels are completed and the old tunnels are rehabilitated, the capacity under the Hudson River can be 200% more than what it is right now. That would be incentive for long-wanted projects like MOM to happen.

But even with that extra tunnel capacity, NY Penn is pretty overcrowded. What about Hoboken? That is also pretty overcrowded.

I think NJT, if it wants to continue to expand after Gateway, will need to look into getting a new terminal.

There is the option of re-establishing Communipaw. This would be a huge stretch, given that direct connection to Communipaw pre-Aldene Connection is not possible whatsoever. Forget the former Newark Bay Bridge, most of that RoW has been horrifically intruded on, and the ROW entirely is planned to become a bike trail of some sort.

There is a way to get to Communipaw, but that would involve going over some heavy freight lines, but you'd still have to use the congested NJT/Amtrak routes to get that way anyway.

A few of us proposed connecting with ferry services in Central Jersey. Apparently, South Amboy is to get a ferry terminal sooner or later, which could be a terminal point for some NJT trains on the Coastline, especially if MOM ends up dumping out onto the Coastline at either Red Bank or Matawan.

Going off of that idea, I think if something like MOM were to happen, they should turn the Henry Hudson Trail back into a railroad, and have it terminate at the Seastreak ferry in Atlantic Highlands - which used to be a fairly major station on the CNJ back in the day.

This entire thread is gonna be a lot of speculation on something that probably won't happen, but we can dream, right?

Something I haven’t seen anyone mention is that Communipaw Terminal is also now a centerpiece of Liberty State Park. I highly doubt you’ll be able to convince supporters/fans of the park (which admittedly includes myself) to give up green space for a small rail yard that also makes it harder to access downtown Jersey City if it isn’t grade separated.

The old Newark Bay Bridge has no chance of coming back ever. Even if the ROW on both sides was intact the Port Authority wouldn’t allow it to return because it would inconvenience ships going to Port Newark.

Many times over the years it has been repeated here that Hoboken is overcrowded. Prior to MidTown Direct Hoboken handled many more trains. Prior to Secaucus Junction it handled many more passengers from the Main, Bergen, Pascack Valley and Port Jervis trains. How is it overcrowded now?

andegold wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 10:52 am Many times over the years it has been repeated here that Hoboken is overcrowded. Prior to MidTown Direct Hoboken handled many more trains. Prior to Secaucus Junction it handled many more passengers from the Main, Bergen, Pascack Valley and Port Jervis trains. How is it overcrowded now?

That and this: "Advocates question the agency’s funding strategies. This spending plan burns through NJ Transit’s remaining $800 million in federal pandemic aid, creating an automatic shortfall next year. The budget relies on ridership increasing to 76% of pre-pandemic levels, yielding $776 million in farebox revenues but estimates have been over-optimistic in the past. NJ Transit CEO Kevin Corbett said weekday ridership remains at approximately 65% of pre-COVID levels. “We’re fluctuating between 65-75 percent depending on the day of the week,” Corbett said." https://www.njspotlightnews.org/video/n ... are-hikes/

Hoboken overcrowded? There is only 1 Waterfront Connection train on weekdays when there used to be like 6.

Reinstate some of the NJCL trains that used to terminate at Hoboken. Would take some of the pressure off NYP.

This will never happen because NS would absolutely lose their mind, but I would love the state of NJ buying Croxton for expansion as a terminal. Lengthen the Secaucus platforms and have trains terminate at Secaucus to help reduce load on Hoboken. (This would specifically apply to Hoboken Division trains). I just don't think there's any place for a new yard without just acquiring one.

GSC wrote:Reinstate some of the NJCL trains that used to terminate at Hoboken. Would take some of the pressure off NYP.

This. These trains were very busy back in the day. Not everyone commutes to NYP.

Well in 2023, not everyone commutes period. Ridership still at what, 70% of pre-covid levels?

Roadgeek Adam wrote:This will never happen because NS would absolutely lose their mind, but I would love the state of NJ buying Croxton for expansion as a terminal. Lengthen the Secaucus platforms and have trains terminate at Secaucus to help reduce load on Hoboken. (This would specifically apply to Hoboken Division trains). I just don't think there's any place for a new yard without just acquiring one.

Yeah, that's not going to happen.

Bracdude181 wrote:

GSC wrote:Reinstate some of the NJCL trains that used to terminate at Hoboken. Would take some of the pressure off NYP.

This. These trains were very busy back in the day. Not everyone commutes to NYP.

I'm pretty sure we beat this to death way back when the 45's were coming on line. A large chunk of folks would get off at Newark. The option for PATH and lower Manhattan is there too. As great as it would be to see the Shore to Hoboken trains, with ridership levels where they are it's hard to justify.

Where they are yes it’s hard to justify. Seems NJTs current rail ridership is fluctuating between 55-75 percent of what it was pre pandemic. Considering how things were before the pandemic, (overcrowded trains, delays, breakdowns, etc) I can see why anyone who’s able to do so wouldn’t come back to commuting via these trains.

I do not know if NJT has ran ALP45 powered directs to anywhere besides NY from the Bay Head, but I do recall Long Branch to Hoboken trains being around pre pandemic being pulled by the 46s.

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 8:36 am I do not know if NJT has ran ALP45 powered directs to anywhere besides NY from the Bay Head, but I do recall Long Branch to Hoboken trains being around pre pandemic being pulled by the 46s.

They have...

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 8:36 am I do not know if NJT has ran ALP45 powered directs to anywhere besides NY from the Bay Head

RVL has 8 roundtrips per weekday using 45s from Raritan. Something I was able to look up in about 2 minutes on NJT's website.

Isn't Waterfront being doubled?

It could be easily used as a frequency increaser for the NEC and NJCLs - some extra inner shuttles, or RVL and shooting some Newark terminators there to free up platform space at NWK.

Hoboken and Jersey City are far more than they were in the 90s, in terms of population, 'leisure' and jobs. Cheaper fares might encourage/discourage would-be Penn users - as might a future integrated deal with a PATH entry at Hoboken. Or a ferry ride. But nobody really thinks integrated here.