MOM Rail Service

What about that one guys 47-minute wait at New Brunswick. @Cruiser939 would have something to say about that.

Oh we’re digging deep into the past!

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:35 am

Kaback9 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:26 am

David wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:57 am Good to see you again, Kaback9!

Thanks good to be back and see some familiar names are still here!

GSC wrote:Yes, good to see you Kaback9! Welcome back..

Likewise and thank you!

Indeed! Welcome back!

Thank you!

OportRailfan wrote:What about that one guys 47-minute wait at New Brunswick. @Cruiser939 would have something to say about that.

I say we build a hovercat line from Red Bank down to Toms River...it won't help the one guy at New Brunswick but hey, it's something!

Kaback9 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:52 pm While I agree it would make sense, there is still work that will need to be done to infrastructure in NJ. Could the corridor handle the extra traffic? Is there a need for it with the change in commuter behavior? All questions that need to be looked at first.

IMO, I think a lot of commuters that ride on the Coastline below South Amboy, would switch over to MOM if it happened. A lot of people in Central-Western Monmouth County and northern Ocean County already drive to stations on and take the NJCL, but a MOM route would probably be closer to their homes. I know this is the case for me...

Kaback9 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:52 pm Side note it's beginning to sound like this is going to be more of a MO line than MOM....

No surprise there. Some towns in Middlesex County held off pretty harshly the last go-around, and even if the trains went through, a lot of those towns are close enough to the NEC that they usually just drive to existing stations on it.

Best MO/MOM route that would serve a lot of people + not take too long to reach destinations on end-to-end would be Toms River - Lakehurst - Lakewood - Farmingdale - Freehold - Marlboro - Matawan for the route. That follows the Freehold Branch of the old CNJ, of which most of it has either become a rail trail or has had its ROW encroached on by mega mansions owned by people with a lot of money. They would certainly be some stiff resistance to the project.

Ideal MOM route IMO would be two prongs that split off at Farmingdale; one continues north to Red Bank so the MOM route is speedy for those deep into Ocean County, and the other west to Monmouth Junction to serve more people. But that would be two routes in one...

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:57 pm We discussed this briefly on the Delaware and Raritan topic. One member mentioned that NJT ridership as a whole has been fluctuating between 55-75 percent less than it was before Covid. A lot of people work from home nowadays too. Is there enough left to justify MOM?

People still commute, especially if they are commuting up to NYC or North Jersey to do things that can't be done remote, like industrial jobs, healthcare jobs, etc.

For remote workers, a lot of them aren't completely remote anymore, but they are only in the office a few days a week now. I work in Trenton, and you can tell when the majority of people work remote based on the traffic patterns on that particular day.

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:57 pm Glad the tunnels are finally on the way at least. Don’t know much about what’s between there and Monmouth Junction. They’ve been building a new portal bridge and the sawtooth bridge is getting repaired/replaced too. I could be wrong but I think they also said something about the bridge right next to Newark Penn being fixed up? I honestly don’t remember.

IIRC the NEC doesn't have too many issues with capacity, unless you want the trains to be going fast to make using the train worth it, especially in the case of Acela. Then you have an issue with capacity. If only the old Camden and Amboy line was still a throughway from South Amboy down to Camden, maybe NJT could've used that route to parallel the NEC to relieve some pressure off of Amtrak

GSC wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:22 am In the Pennsy years, they boasted the 4-track Main Line could handle what a FORTY LANE superhighway could. All I hear now is the line now can't handle "all this traffic" on the NE Corridor. With limited freight allowed, where is this "traffic"? When I drove a school bus, I had off time between runs and would find a place to watch the NE Corrider. Trains running on half hour headway, with an occasional high-speed express going by, I don't see this "congestion". "If MOM is a reality, how can the NEC handle all this additional traffic?" I must be missing something.

Likely to do with headways. They are way quicker than 30 minutes now.

I know some of Acela's fastest speeds are supposed to be between Trenton and New Brunswick, and both Amtrak and NJT try to make their trains go 80-100MPH+ on the NEC to make it competitive to driving. Back in the Pennsy days, there wasn't much highways to compete with your route, so 40MPH was the best commuters could get, so you could definitely stick on a ton of trains onto the NEC at those speeds.

lensovet wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:16 pm Umm what half hour headways? NJT alone runs 113 trains/day in 22 hours, which corresponds to 11-minute headways not including Amtrak, just in the northbound direction. Amtrak adds another 30 trains to that, or a 9-minute average headway. In practice these are not evenly distributed throughout the day so during peak hours you will see trains boarding on all platforms at the same time and expresses taking over locals throughout their route.

How many decades ago did you drive the bus?

He did say it was back in the Pennsy days. Back then, Pennsy was the only RR that ran on the NEC in NJ (if I am correct). Now, the NEC has two passenger railroads and the occasional freight railroad, all separate entities/companies, running on it, so of course it's going to be a bit of a mess

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:01 pm

Kaback9 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:52 pm While I agree it would make sense, there is still work that will need to be done to infrastructure in NJ. Could the corridor handle the extra traffic? Is there a need for it with the change in commuter behavior? All questions that need to be looked at first.

IMO, I think a lot of commuters that ride on the Coastline below South Amboy, would switch over to MOM if it happened. A lot of people in Central-Western Monmouth County and northern Ocean County already drive to stations on and take the NJCL, but a MOM route would probably be closer to their homes. I know this is the case for me...

Kaback9 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:52 pm Side note it's beginning to sound like this is going to be more of a MO line than MOM....

No surprise there. Some towns in Middlesex County held off pretty harshly the last go-around, and even if the trains went through, a lot of those towns are close enough to the NEC that they usually just drive to existing stations on it.

Best MO/MOM route that would serve a lot of people + not take too long to reach destinations on end-to-end would be Toms River - Lakehurst - Lakewood - Farmingdale - Freehold - Marlboro - Matawan for the route. That follows the Freehold Branch of the old CNJ, of which most of it has either become a rail trail or has had its ROW encroached on by mega mansions owned by people with a lot of money. They would certainly be some stiff resistance to the project.

Ideal MOM route IMO would be two prongs that split off at Farmingdale; one continues north to Red Bank so the MOM route is speedy for those deep into Ocean County, and the other west to Monmouth Junction to serve more people. But that would be two routes in one...

While I agree going up via the CNJ to MR would of made the most sense. At this point in time I do not see that as a viable option. Having spent most of my life in that area and having seen the changes firsthand to both the line and the area. The amount of work that would now need to be done makes it a no go. The NIMBY's that will be encountered alone make it a hard pass if I'm transit. Most of these people who are close to the line in Freehold and Marlboro will have deep pockets and fight it tooth and nail.

As for siphoning people off from the coast line, I'm not so sure that would come to fruition. Maybe if you're driving up from South of Freehold to the NJCL. Quite frankly if we're willing though to settle for one of the two existing routes, not hitting Freehold would be foolish. If the folks of Middlesex are so opposed perhaps a two prong via Farmingdale with some sort of layover yard in Freehold and then of course have another prong down the southern.

Of course I don't think we'll see any of this anytime soon, look how long it has taken just to get new tunnels and they are still moving at a snails pace over on the cutoff.

GSC wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:22 am Yes, good to see you Kaback9! Welcome back.
, I don't see this "congestion". "If MOM is a reality, how can the NEC handle all this additional traffic?" I must be missing something.

It probably is the 2 Main tracks north of Newark Penn. Remember PRR had many freight trains that turned off the passenger train routes south of Newark Penn.
Solution? Get Portal south started, Gateway new bores complete and rehab of North River tunnel bores complete. probably not in my time of about 2035 -2040.

IMO when all this is complete the total capacity will increase to about 225 - 250%. Then something will be needed for NYP capacity increases.

#1626034 by JohnFromJersey
Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:03 pm

wrote:

He did say it was back in the Pennsy days. Back then, Pennsy was the only RR that ran on the NEC in NJ (if I am correct).

This was true until the Aldene Plan when CNJ Raritan and Coast Line trains were diverted to Newark Penn. Also Reading and B&O went to Newark Penn.

you are forgetting the Leigh Valley which ran to Newark Penn long before the Aldene plan went into effect.

The argument that "back when the Penn Ran the railroad" is moot. There were other railroads running over at certain points as mentioned by other members. What is being left out though is the Penn didn't have a chunk of trains coming off the Lackawanna to use the highline into NYP. The Penn also ran until it's demise a large amount of trains into exchange place which took a bunch of pressure off of Penn.

The point remains the infrastructure even with a new tunnels needs to be upgraded in order to handle expansions.

There’s a video online showing Coast Line train 3326 going to NYC pre pandemic. I can’t post the link cause my phone is acting up but it gives a good idea of congestion around Newark and beyond. They had to stop a few times to let trains cross over, merge from other lines, etc.

Kaback9 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:01 pm The point remains the infrastructure even with a new tunnels needs to be upgraded in order to handle expansions.

Even with the tunnels, and expansion of the tracks, you're going to overwhelm the stations. Exchange Place and Communipaw should've never been closed down. NJT (and Amtrak) need more terminating points than just running directly into NYC via NY Penn and Hoboken. There needs to be another terminal that either has new PATH tunnels or some sort of ferry service attached to it.

Aforementioned video

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 12:13 pm

Kaback9 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:01 pm The point remains the infrastructure even with a new tunnels needs to be upgraded in order to handle expansions.

Even with the tunnels, and expansion of the tracks, you're going to overwhelm the stations. Exchange Place and Communipaw should've never been closed down. NJT (and Amtrak) need more terminating points than just running directly into NYC via NY Penn and Hoboken. There needs to be another terminal that either has new PATH tunnels or some sort of ferry service attached to it.

I agree on Communipaw. I disagree on Exchange Place. Pavonia would probably have been a better choice.

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 12:13 pm There needs to be another terminal that either has new PATH tunnels or some sort of ferry service attached to it.

The only possible terminal would be the abandoned Jersy City terminal. That station was abandoned when the Aldene plan went into effect. In circa 1967 it was thought that another terminal would never be needed as passenger traffic was still loosing with PRR and CR's terrible service.