Mail and Express - Adios

I would make 4/6 Seperate Trains Between Galesburg and Chicago presonally.

AmtrakFan

First, I don't think anyone here would like to see A Chief/Zephyr combination Chi-Galesburg. For all the reasons noted, in particular by our "professionals" that have participated at this thread, it won't save Amtrak a dime. Surely any such change will result in further performance deterioration that could well translate into "misconnect" costs, and bring additional recruits to the "never again' chanters.

But sometimes in managment circles, the "right thing" gets "steamrolled' by one "contestant" or another determined to "win one' in the Conference Room. This is just the kind of issure that folks within management can sieze upon, and in their mind, "win" and enhance their carreer (or at least until someone else comes to power)

Now regarding Mr. Baker's thoughts on existing Train & Engine Labor Agreements, back in "railroad days', if a Road crew, absent a specific Local Agreement, performed any Yard duties within Yard limits, penalty claims would be a flyin' and I guarantee you, from having done Labor Relations work "along the way", would be "good as Gold'. Naturally if a locomotive or car "bad orders" on the road, that is the Road crew's work to set it out.

However, I thought Amtrak had gained some concessions in that area. From my own observations, I have noted Road crews combining Silver trains both at Auburndale and at Jacksonville. I further observed an Express Box car being set off in New Orleans from the Sunset - once again that work being done by the Road crew.

But that having been said, in no way do I think that Amtrak has the perogative to direct a Road crew, having completed their inbound run but, say, is 'alive' for still another 4 hours to go out to the Yard and start shifting cars as directed by the Yardmaster until they "die".

Mr. Norman,

I believe that the last time trains were split or joined in Florida was nearly 10 years ago, under an earlier BLE agreement. I do know that, in the intervening years, the BLE won a very favorable (for the members) contract renewal from the previous Amtrak administration.

I believe in the very few places where Amtrak still splits/joins consists (i.e., Albany, NY; Spokane, WA; San Antonio, TX) the work is performed by the yard crews and hostlers assigned to those locations. In other places where a single car is dropped, the local yard crew "pulls the pin" and the remainder of the train simply pulls away at departure time. The local crews are also tapped for adding cars as I've witnessed in WAS; PHL; NYP and CHI.

And, as you say, setting off bad order cars enroute is certainly handled by road crews. But whether or not those crews gain any penalty payment for performing such switching, I cannot testify. Thankfully, the number of instances of that happening have been mercifully few.

Admittedly, this part of the business is not my strong area of expertise, but unless my casual observations fail me, I don't think road crews perform switching duties anymore.

Your observation, Mr. Baker, regarding that a new BLE Agreement (and surely UTU for Conductors as well) rescinded previously existing work rules regarding Road crew performance of Yard duties incident to their train goes a long way to explain why Amtrak chooses to sharply limit intermediate stations at which switching is done. Away from the three locations you note, namely Albany, San Antonio, and Spokane, any other locations appertain Mail & Express activities.

If a bad ordered car must be set out, that has always been part of the duties of the road crew. I'm not aware of any road that pays "arbitraries' for that emergency duty. If, as on Amtrak, T&E are hourly rated, and the set-out takes time, then so be it; more time, more pay.

Likewise, on the roads, if in through freight service, setting out a bad ordered car resulted in a crew making less than 12.5 miles per hour, then overtime pay would be applicable. Nationally negotiated agreements with the roads regarding passenger service required T&E to "make" 20 mph before overtime would be applicable.

Pay Schedules on the roads (or at least when I was there) provided for separate rates of pay for Through Freight vs. Local Freight. Local was higher, considering that on=line pick ups and set outs were part of the duties. To throw in still another wrinkle, some jobs namely what were called "patrols' on the MILW were assigned to leave and return to the same terminal. Those jobs were paid under a schedule called "Short Turnaround" and paid overtime for hours exceeding 8 regardless of miles earned.

Any updates on the above, Messrs. Weaver or CSX?

I think we're all putting the cart before the horses here.

First, IF Amtrak discontinues the M&E operation, they have to give due notice to their shippers.

Second, regarding "Cities of Everywhere": GBN, for Amtrak to combine the CZ and SW Chief to Galesburg will require them to either run two complete trains behind enough locomotives to have two complete sets at the Galesburg 'split,' or Amtrak will have to create a coach yard, roundhouse, and Commissary at Galesburg for the equipment being cut in/out there. Do we honestly think Amtrak has the capital to create a new coach yard right now?

Third, the business decision to keep or discard M&E operations (beyond the baggage cars) depends on the incremental costs of running those freight cars as well as the tarriff, incentives, and penalties for haulage and timely haulage.

Watch, wait and see. What will happen will happen.

John

I wonder if the loss of much of the postal/express business is from the postal service cancelling the contracts rather than Amtrak opting out of the business.. I do think the freight carriers really put the screws to them about this, however... I think the postal/express initiative was tied to the "Network Growth Strategy: The failure of new markets to emerge in the south and southwest with the proposed (tho apparent pipedream) new routings combined with deterioration in existing services may have doomed this initiative. There just isnt enough of a national network to do anything with.

william powers wrote: There just isnt enough of a national network to do anything with.

Then I say the politicians that say they are pro-Amtrak, the lobbyists that are pro-Amtrak should get on the ball, and get Amtrak some annual dedicated funding for operations, and some capital improvement money, to re-build the national network, one route at a time if that is what it takes.

railfanofewu wrote:

william powers wrote: There just isnt enough of a national network to do anything with.

Then I say the politicians that say they are pro-Amtrak, the lobbyists that are pro-Amtrak should get on the ball, and get Amtrak some annual dedicated funding for operations, and some capital improvement money, to re-build the national network, one route at a time if that is what it takes.

As many have been trying to do for 33+ years.

The 4 Trains from Galesburg to Chicago--
Pioneer
Cal Zephyr
Desert Wind
SW Cheif

It wasnt too long ago that all were running.

PacificCommand wrote:The 4 Trains from Galesburg to Chicago--
Pioneer
Cal Zephyr
Desert Wind
SW Cheif

It wasnt too long ago that all were running.

Remember when the Pioneer/CZ and Desert Wind ran as the 5/25/35 and 6/26/36 Combo I still remember those Trains well even thought I was young.

AmtrakFan

If we're talking specifically GBB-CHI, one must also include the Illinois Zephyr.

A question about 5-25-35- What was the typical consist, while the zephyr would still hook up with the wind?

A 5-25-35, or "The Everywhere West" circa 1965 has a consist "roundly' as follows

F40
F40
Bagg-CHI-EMY
Bagg
Coach Dorm
Sleeper
Diner
Lounge
Coach
Coach
Coach CHI-LAX
Coach-Bagg
Sleeper
Coach CHI-PDX
Sleeper

13 cars, roundly as I recall.

Those last two cars ran CHI-SEA. When I rode 5/25/35 in 1985, the LA cars were on the hind end.

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