future LIRR electrifications

keyboardkat wrote:

peanut1 wrote:The LIRR is not meant to be a subway system. They are a commuter rail plus that would be alot of money.

My comment about turning the LIRR into one big subway system was meant sarcastically. I certainly would not want that, although the LIRR, which used to be a RAILROAD, now seems much more of a transit machine, with cloned, lookalike MU cars, and cloned, lookalike locomotives and double deckers. Give me the LIRR of the late '50s and early '60s, with great on-time service even with older equipment, with a variety of locomotives from two manufacturers, and a variety of passenger rolling stock from MP-70 double decker MUs, to P-72s, to P-54s, and two Budd RDCs.

I was just saying. I know u meant that sarcastically.

keyboardkat wrote:

peanut1 wrote:The LIRR is not meant to be a subway system. They are a commuter rail plus that would be alot of money.

My comment about turning the LIRR into one big subway system was meant sarcastically. I certainly would not want that, although the LIRR, which used to be a RAILROAD, now seems much more of a transit machine, with cloned, lookalike MU cars, and cloned, lookalike locomotives and double deckers. Give me the LIRR of the late '50s and early '60s, with great on-time service even with older equipment, with a variety of locomotives from two manufacturers, and a variety of passenger rolling stock from MP-70 double decker MUs, to P-72s, to P-54s, and two Budd RDCs.

While the variety of equipment you describe is great for rsilfans to look at, operationally it is a lot easier to maintain a fleet of similar cars than it is to stock parts and train folls to work on a variety of cars from a variety of builders.

The original poster aked if the LIRR was planning any extensions of its electric territory. That does not appear to be the case at the present time. Anything in the budget or any new construction contracts related to electrification?

Otto

It's no secret that in economic times like these, maintaining the present system is challenging enough. The present capital projects that are underway and planned have claims on every penny and then some that is available. We will see East Side Access, which is a huge expansion in electrification. It will also be the Long Island's first route expansion in perhaps 100 years.

Then there is the mainline third track program which may or may not happen along with mainline grade elimination through Mineola. If the third track becomes a reality, new substations would have to be constructed to handle the increased load.

While not greatly publicized, several new substations have been built to replace temporary construction from the M-1's arrival era. Plandome, Island Park and several other sites have seen very nice new buildings.

The economy is not boosting ridership at eastern points, so electrification projects haven't been discussed in the past several years.

When growth does again start, I suppose Port Jefferson - or Northport, as it was projected, will see the next electrification extension. They were promised electric service by 1950 and then again by 1989. The dual-mode engines were a compromise, sort of a substitution for the electric service promised. I suppose when those engines ened their lives, perhaps in some fifteen years, electrification will be back on the table, and nobody will want to see another dual-mode engine again.

Maybe in our lifetime we'll see them get third rail.

I heard about the Port Jefferson electrification. I use to ride Port Jeff when my grandparent lived in Smithtown. Lives in Florida now. I could definatley see that happening maybe in my lifetime. Anything is possible.

I see electrfying the Port Jeff branch a strong asset to the company for it not only will reduce the extremely congested mainline, from results of numerous surveys, but will attract many more commuters on the North Shore not willing to travel to and deal with the congestion there. But I've always heard the issue about the MU's not able to make the grades on the Port Jeff branch. I guess the high torque of the M-7's can solve this issue. Any thoughts?

It's possible. Port Jefferson is some what of a quite branch though. Not really much goes on.

Where are the steepest grades in the system anyway? If anything, I'd think MUs could do grades better - more power and less weight.

I've never had problems with M3s or M7s on any grade going up to Huntington, they perform very well. Even the DE/DMs aren't bad if you run them right to avoid wheel slip.

Obviously, there's Cold Spring Hill, Mount Olivet which is east of Maspeth on the Montauk Branch then there's a few steep grades east of Speonk and a few here and there between Medford and Calverton.

Port Jeff is a quiet branch because commuters don't want to travel 2 hours plus into Manhattan when there are other options. Steep grades all along the branch east of greenlawn.

Those CPA-24 FM C-liners could take a 17-car Port Jeff train and just walk up the hill east out of Cold Spring Harbor or Smithtown like a man carrying a briefcase. Those things could really pull. According to Trains mag, you could shove the throttle all the way to Run 8 from a standing stop with a heavy train, and suffer no wheel slip!

Thats pretty good and with no wheel slip is even better .

condr78 wrote:Port Jeff is a quiet branch because commuters don't want to travel 2 hours plus into Manhattan when there are other options. Steep grades all along the branch east of greenlawn.

NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO MANHATTAN

No, but 96% are going to Manhattan.

Port Jeff should be the most important followed by Speonk, Central, then then the rest of the Montauk line from Speonk-Montauk.

7express wrote:Port Jeff should be the most important followed by Speonk, Central, then then the rest of the Montauk line from Speonk-Montauk.

Patchogue-Montauk need not be electrified. Remember, the reason for the limited service on the Port Jeff today is single-track limitation, not diesel territory. If anything, Oyster Bay should be electrified before Montauk.