Forced to join a Rail Union?

I realize that the collective bargaining agreement for Norfolk-Southern requires employees to join one of the Union: BLET or the UTU. However, I do know that under the following case precedent (excerpt) one can limit dues paid to such a Union:

"The Supreme Court, in Ellis v. BRAC, 466 U.S. 435 (1984), a lawsuit that was supported by the Foundation, ruled that objecting nonmembers cannot be required to pay union dues. The most that nonnmembers can be required to pay is an agency fee that equals their share of what the union can prove is its costs of collective bargaining, contract administration, and grievance adjustment with their employer.

Except in extraordinary cases, the union's costs of collective bargaining, contract administration, and grievance adjustment do not equal the dues amount.

Ellis makes clear that nonmembers required to pay union fees as a condition of employment have a right under the RLA to object and obtain a reduction of their compulsory payments so that they do not include union expenses for purposes other than collective bargaining, contract administration, and grievance adjustment."

And this also:

"Under the RLA, you cannot be required to be a member of a union or pay it any monies as a condition of employment unless the collective bargaining agreement between your employer and your union contains a provision requiring all employees to either join the union or pay union fees.

Even if there is such a provision in the agreement, the most that can be required of you is to pay the union fees (generally called an "agency fee").
"

So my question is- has anyone exercised the option to refuse excess Union dues to pay for non-exempted uses (political causes, lobbying, ect)? I have a feeling that there would be some blowback by all the "Union Men" at the workplace if I tried to do this. Personally I despise the Unions and the way they are run, but have to be in one as part of the bargaining agreement. Any experiences or advice on the matter would be helpful....

I've heard of people that threatened to withdraw from the union but none have actually went through with it, I'm anxious to know if there are any as well? I'm not going to tap into your business and opinion much but I am going to say that if you screw up, the union can be the one to save your job and especially within the rail industry T&E crafts (more than anything).

You don't have to pay dues to BLET or UTU, however, you will be required to pay that portion of money to non profit organization of your choice. By choosing this route, you are not protected under your labor agreements. In other words, when you are charged with any form of discipline, no one will represent you and your case will not be appealed at the labor board. I haven't come across anyone who chose this route...

If you despise unions so much, then why not hire on with a non-union railroad?

Unions despite not being able to charge you union dues can and will still charge you for maintaining your contract, your working enviroment, administration , seniority.
you will find the actual membership money not worth the savings .

If you hate how unions are ran wait til you see how management runs the railroads. Also I'd be more worried about a Trainmaster knowing you aren't in a union not the other workers. MIght think you are easy picking when they don't have enough OOS charges at the end of the month

Oh boy, if I respond to this thread I'll get thrown off this board forever and probably investigated by the FBI. I will just say this, freeloaders make me sick. Want all the good stuff, but don't want to pay the dues every else sacrificed to get it that way.

The BLE wasn't a closed shop union till 2007. I knew quite a few that would drop out periodically as a form of protest. Some were like a yoyo dropping in & out on a whim. Not belonging could ostracise a person. I've seen that happen in the past. For anyone to reap the benefits but not pay their fair share is unfair in my opinion. Take away the union what's left to stop corporations from taking away benefits, wages, seniority, retirement pensions ect....If someone is aware that railroads are unionized then they should walk away not even proceed with hiring if they have a problem with it. It's not fair for others to let them ride on their coat tails. I'm still a proud union member even after retirement.

Oh great... another "right to work" advocate. May as well just call it "right to freeload". You don't like how the union is run? GET INVOLVED. RUN FOR AN OFFICER'S POSITION. That's what real men do. Not complain on a foamer board about it.

Let me give you a piece of advice, bretylium. You will regret that decision if you exercise such a "right". You will be ostracised, ignored, harassed, villified, labeled a scab and troublemaker. You will be off to a really bad start on the railroad, trust me on this!!!!! I've never heard of this "ruling", and so long as I was an employee I HAD to be a Union member. If you refused to join, not the Union itself, but THE COMPANY would escort you out the door!!!! You will NOT have a happy existence if you don't join. Having said this, I found that I LIKED the union shop---and so did the bosses (at least the "good" ones did). It meant that I couldn't be arbitrarily laid off while a junior man was kept (political, or family connections, etc), nor any of my rights as an employee could be violated. Supervisors liked the union shop because it gave THEM set of rules by which to decide what to do about a given situation.

You *may* be a "troll"--I don't know, but you are coming off as a ME-ME-ME kind of person, a "do-gooder" whose going to come to the railroad and "knock 'em dead" with your perceived savvy. We've seen 'em before, believe me. They come in and immediately begin to schmooze the boss, "suck up", try to be a "company man". The supervisors who DID come from the ranks will despise you because they, too, have seen and experienced their share of suck ups. You aren't foolin' them!

Now having been a bit harsh to you, I say to you, JOIN your respective Union. Yes, unions have problems: they ain't perfect. But it beats the environment that would exist without them. You will appreciate your union rights and more so if you pay into the organization. Simply do your job, don't try to "work" the system or exercise your idealism. Do an honest day's work, pay your dues, and if you do a good job, don't cause friction with anti-union sentiments, they might notice you and step you up. Get labeled as a "scab" and even the bosses may hate you. Why? Because being labeled a "scab" means that you may not be trustworthy, may not be reliable, you have no causes in which you believe in other than yourself. This, from the company standpoint, believe it or not! As said, some of them were/are union men stepped up from the ranks and even THEY still pay that "agency fee" because it allows them to "go back on their tools" if they no longer like being a boss. Cause trouble, you won't last very long! I wish you the best.

Fraternally,
Gadfly

Thanks for the advice Gadfly. Seems like people pretty much blew up what I was saying beyond what I really said. What I said was "do I have the right to object to my Union dues being applied towards politcal causes, raises for the bosses". As in, I should only have to pay the dues directly related towards the collective bargaining agreement. I just dont like the idea for "paying for the right to work", with some of that money going toward supporting some political candiadte or a raise for the chairman. You know? Ive never worked in a Union job before and have never had a problem with the benefits or pay I have recieved. Yes, they have to defend you if you get in trouble but that is part of the collective bargaining agreement- not a function of paying dues above and beyond what directly relates to that. I guess I just havent learned the "union attitude" that comes with having a job that requires being part of one. I just want to work and not have to worry about all these extra games that are going on around me, but I guess no one will let me do that in the end...

You know? Ive never worked in a Union job before and have never had a problem with the benefits or pay I have recieved. Yes, they have to defend you if you get in trouble but that is part of the collective bargaining agreement- not a function of paying dues above and beyond what directly relates to that. I guess I just havent learned the "union attitude" that comes with having a job that requires being part of one. I just want to work and not have to worry about all these extra games that are going on around me, but I guess no one will let me do that in the end...

You know? You've never worked for a major railroad, either. You think the games the unions play are bad, wait until you see the games the company plays.

Unions didn't form out of thin air. They are there for a reason...

The unions aren't there just for collective bargaining. It's a 365/24/7 fight for your rights. You object to Politcal Action Committee better known as PAC funds that's alright don't contribute. PAC funds are a separate issue it's strictly voluntary none of your union dues are being used. Pay increases for union bosses? Let's start with a railroad local chairmen they are the first line of defense they also aren't a full time job they work just like everyone else. The general chairmen is the second line a full time job they cover thousands of miles of territory multiple divisions/locals. Last is the national/international officers their job is more like a politician their dealing on the bigger picture working with each railroad and with the government agencies. Last time I looked their salaries aren't outragious. The breakdown of your union dues is in three parts: 1) division/local 2) general committee 3) national/international HQ. None goes to PAC funds. I voluntarily gave money to PAC funds that's an individual choice it's not forced. Unions are restricted on contributions to candidates unlike corporations or individuals who are unrestricted thank's to the 2010 Supreme Court decision which is obvious in this election more than anytime I've ever witnessed in 40 years of voting. You also have to remember you don't fall under "state right to work laws" railroads fall under the federal government with the FRA, STB ect.....

I'M with Coen77 and the others. What causes the union was the attitude and the treatment of employees over a 100 years. I, too, objected to *some* of the PAC stuff, but I supported my union. There are many examples of how the union work rules help to save one's bacon. Without them, the company could take YOUR work and give it to a clerk, a trainman's to a car peck a machinist's to a signal maintainer. Now if that happens, employees can file claims for time for work performed out of craft and be paid for them when arbitration rules for them. Time claims are hotly contested, but they DO serve a purpose.

When I first started on the railroad, I was anti-union. As I began to see how the railroads treat their employees, I became GLAD I was a fraternal brother of TCU (formerly BRAC). I SAW the politics, the intimidation tactics used by the railroad upon the employees, the only thing standing between the brothers and the company was the union and my LC who worked tirelessly for us. I got taken out of service several times for infractions, some of which were as silly as forgetting to set a pallet inside the shop. Sometimes it was a "blame game" where I had to prove my innocence., In one case, I proved it wasn't me after 60 days "on the ground", and the company had to pay me for EVERY single day. Without the union protections, I wouldn't gotten a dime. Plus the supervisor got transferred!

You are new. You will eventually come to see that us old heads were right. It is what it is, and the company is to blame for it!!!!


GF

Unions are no better than any other form of human organization, being made up of humans, with all their individual flaws, so be it,
But for god sake focus on the forest you are in, not the trees.
The corporation( also a flawed human organisation) is obligated by its charter to drive down labor cost for the benefit of stock owners.
The union is the only mechanism in the world ever invented to defend against that.
Decide now which organ is operating in your best interest.