Forced to join a Rail Union?

Doug85 wrote:I worked in non union before and they would let people go that had years of service and didn't do anything wrong just to save a buck on their vacation and salaries. When the economy went bust benefits and perks were cut, hours were cut I feel much better working somewhere that I am protected. We need the unions to fight for decent wages and against wrongful treatment. If you have seen what I have in the non union world you would appreciate what these dues do for you.

Gadfly wrote:Let me give you a piece of advice, bretylium. You will regret that decision if you exercise such a "right". You will be ostracised, ignored, harassed, villified, labeled a scab and troublemaker. You will be off to a really bad start on the railroad, trust me on this!!!!! I've never heard of this "ruling", and so long as I was an employee I HAD to be a Union member. If you refused to join, not the Union itself, but THE COMPANY would escort you out the door!!!! You will NOT have a happy existence if you don't join. Having said this, I found that I LIKED the union shop---and so did the bosses (at least the "good" ones did). It meant that I couldn't be arbitrarily laid off while a junior man was kept (political, or family connections, etc), nor any of my rights as an employee could be violated. Supervisors liked the union shop because it gave THEM set of rules by which to decide what to do about a given situation.

You *may* be a "troll"--I don't know, but you are coming off as a ME-ME-ME kind of person, a "do-gooder" whose going to come to the railroad and "knock 'em dead" with your perceived savvy. We've seen 'em before, believe me. They come in and immediately begin to schmooze the boss, "suck up", try to be a "company man". The supervisors who DID come from the ranks will despise you because they, too, have seen and experienced their share of suck ups. You aren't foolin' them!

Now having been a bit harsh to you, I say to you, JOIN your respective Union. Yes, unions have problems: they ain't perfect. But it beats the environment that would exist without them. You will appreciate your union rights and more so if you pay into the organization. Simply do your job, don't try to "work" the system or exercise your idealism. Do an honest day's work, pay your dues, and if you do a good job, don't cause friction with anti-union sentiments, they might notice you and step you up. Get labeled as a "scab" and even the bosses may hate you. Why? Because being labeled a "scab" means that you may not be trustworthy, may not be reliable, you have no causes in which you believe in other than yourself. This, from the company standpoint, believe it or not! As said, some of them were/are union men stepped up from the ranks and even THEY still pay that "agency fee" because it allows them to "go back on their tools" if they no longer like being a boss. Cause trouble, you won't last very long! I wish you the best.

Fraternally,
Gadfly

keithsy wrote:Listen to us, Mr. B. You will profit from it. I worked in industry in a union shop. I liked the place. Good conditions and decent human rights. I treated ALL whom I met with those same basics and a little more. I was richly rewarded. Some colleagues nominated me for supervisor. They liked me for my philosophy. I politely declined. I was an asst. supv'r and I did what a boss said, "Look out for your people." I did. A little goes a long way and I mean L O N G.

Desertdweller wrote:bret,

COEN and Gadfly have lived this career and certainly have reason to feel the way they do about it. I have worked on both sides of the desk, and have found, in my own experience, the union that Gadfly praised to be pretty worthless. After being left hung out to dry by them on my first railroad, and seeing them drive my second railroad into dissolution, I have no time for them or any other railroad union. But that is my opinion. They are entitled to their opinion as am I.

My advice to you is this: it is no secret if a railroad is unionized or not. It is very easy to find out before you even apply. If you don't want to join a railroad union, either don't apply to a unionized railroad, or apply for a management position as your initial job assignment. Good luck on that one unless you hold a specialized transportation or management degree.

If you decide the trade-off of union dues and practices are worth the benefits, then keep your mouth shut and hire out on a unionized railroad. Pay the dues, play the game, and don't complain or make waves. You will soon see for yourself that the union's strategy is to protect the senior members at the expense of the junior ones. You all pay the same dues, but those dues do not entitle you to equal protection. If you survive long enough, someone else's job will be sacrificed to protect your own. It will make no difference if either of you are good workers or bad ones.

The observation that the union is a useful tool for front-line railroad management is accurate. According to the contracts, the workers must adhere to the terms of the contract to keep their jobs. This relieves the railroad management of having to enforce the contract on their workers in many cases: the union that the workers pay dues to take on that role.

So, if that is acceptable to you, then go to work for a unionized railroad. You will probably get better pay and benefits as long as you can hold your job. if you do this, don't complain.

If an existing railroad has no union, and then becomes unionized, it is the fault of the railroad's management. There is no excuse for a railroad to treat its employees so badly they have to unionize for their own protection. Railroading, especially in de-regulation, can be so profitable that any viable railroad should be able to offer competitive pay and benefits. If you doubt this, consider: small railroads often have contracts with large railroads to handle overhead traffic or originating/terminating unit trains. These trains usually operate with the Class One's connection's power, fuel, and cars (or customer-leased cars). Aside from required track maintenance, the small railroad's expense consists of a prorated fixed expense for office operations, payments on physical plant and taxes, and crew costs (salaries, benefits, and transportation). Most of these operations run trains like this with 2-person crews, with no layovers at away from home terminals. So what does this cost the little railroad? Generally less than $2000/train. What income do these trains typically generate? Typically in excess of $32,000. Seems to me like there is $30,000 floating around out there someplace. If these railroads want to remain non-union, it is not because they cannot afford to treat their employees fairly.

Why, then, don't the Class Ones just keep the business in unit trains for themselves? Because their cost of operation is so much higher than the small railroads. They actually have to pay for their locomotives, fuel, billing. They also have to use larger crews to comply with their union agreements. If they could make more money by doing it all themselves, believe me, they would.

Like Gadfly and COEN, I have lived this career, too. I have worked in both T&E and management, and have seen the contracts and figures. I have also seen the best company I ever worked for destroyed by the greed of a New York banking firm, who forced a profitable company to divest its railroads in hopes of making even more money by selling them to a shoestring operator.

You don't have to work for a unionized railroad to make a good living in this field. But you do have to be selective and be willing to follow the money and the opportunities. Like Gadfly and COEN, I am enjoying a comfortable retirement. It is the result of working for a variety of railroads, spending much time on the road. It is the way I wanted to do it, not the way I had to do it.

Les