Fire Code Applicable in ERT and NRT (NYC) - Legal Standard

Hi All, new to the forum, and hoping to find an answer to this question. Have done my due diligence, and can't seem to nail down something concrete...

I am researching what fire code governs the North Hudson River Tunnels and East River Tunnels that are owned and operated by Amtrak, and which serve LIRR, NJT and Amtrak trains. I have looked at NYC Fire Code, NYS Fire Code, and made inquiries with the LIRR, Amtrak, and the FRA. I can't seem to determine what code provides the governing (legal) standard that these tunnels must meet (if there is any required standard). I know that the fire systems are currently out of date and have (supposedly) been slowly updated over time, but still fail to meet modern standards (such as NFPA 130). Any insight into this issue would be greatly appreciated. I can further clarify my inquiry if it is unclear. Thanks, and I look forward to being a positive contributor to this forum!!

jscott wrote:Hi All, new to the forum, and hoping to find an answer to this question. Have done my due diligence, and can't seem to nail down something concrete...

I am researching what fire code governs the North Hudson River Tunnels and East River Tunnels that are owned and operated by Amtrak, and which serve LIRR, NJT and Amtrak trains. I have looked at NYC Fire Code, NYS Fire Code, and made inquiries with the LIRR, Amtrak, and the FRA. I can't seem to determine what code provides the governing (legal) standard that these tunnels must meet (if there is any required standard). I know that the fire systems are currently out of date and have (supposedly) been slowly updated over time, but still fail to meet modern standards (such as NFPA 130). Any insight into this issue would be greatly appreciated. I can further clarify my inquiry if it is unclear. Thanks, and I look forward to being a positive contributor to this forum!!

I believe its NFPA 130, I can't recall off the top of my head. I'll confirm when I get to the office Monday morning.....

NFPA 130 only applies to new construction, not pre-existing facilities. I doubt that any railway or subway tunnel built before 2000 fully complies with NFPA 130, except by chance.

BTW don't forget that 80% of the Hudson River tunnels are in New Jersey, not New York.

polybalt wrote:NFPA 130 only applies to new construction, not pre-existing facilities. I doubt that any railway or subway tunnel built before 2000 fully complies with NFPA 130, except by chance.

BTW don't forget that 80% of the Hudson River tunnels are in New Jersey, not New York.

Good point, my bad......

jscott wrote:Hi All, new to the forum, and hoping to find an answer to this question. Have done my due diligence, and can't seem to nail down something concrete...

I am researching what fire code governs the North Hudson River Tunnels and East River Tunnels that are owned and operated by Amtrak, and which serve LIRR, NJT and Amtrak trains. I have looked at NYC Fire Code, NYS Fire Code, and made inquiries with the LIRR, Amtrak, and the FRA. I can't seem to determine what code provides the governing (legal) standard that these tunnels must meet (if there is any required standard). I know that the fire systems are currently out of date and have (supposedly) been slowly updated over time, but still fail to meet modern standards (such as NFPA 130). Any insight into this issue would be greatly appreciated. I can further clarify my inquiry if it is unclear. Thanks, and I look forward to being a positive contributor to this forum!!

I suspect that you probably cannot find any specifics because the specific issue with respect to these tunnels may never have been litigated at an administrative agency or court. The general legal rule is that state police power exercised to assure the public health, safety, welfare and morals, such as police power exercised in building codes, is applicable to federally regulated entities provided that the regulations are clear and not ambiguous and do not result in discrimination against rail carriers or unreasonably burden rail carriage in interstate commerce. Please note that interstate commerce applies to all railroads such as those you cited which are part of the interstate rail system (not insular). So unless an alleged deficiency in meeting the City or State code took place in an enforcement action and was challenged, there would be no definitive answer.