Cardinal discussion

Has the CARDINAL run any extra coaches during this summer?
Andy

ThirdRail7 wrote:Playing fleet manager again, JP1822? Well, in this case you are at least partially correct. The reason they didn't go to Superliner equipment is they are tight on equipment since some of it was sent west.

As for the Viewliners, there is a protect in WAS. It has actually been used a few times. However, you are correct in saying they could eek out another viewliner if they desired. This is because you left out one thing: The Lake Shore Limited is running with one less viewliner since the New York section was cut.

I suppose they cut it to one sleeper for the same reason they cut one off the LSL. Some people probably don't want to transfer and it maybe it was noticed in the reservations.

Still, it would have been nice to make the space available and see it you can fill them.

I can say this, apropos of both the Cardinal and the Lake Shore Limited: I'm booked on 449(25) and 50(31), for the entire length plus a transfer on both ends on both. On 449, only the Accessible Bedroom is available, for $1100. On 50, there are no sleeping accommodations available period. I know they're full initially because I called Amtrak to see if I could switch sides of the train on both reservations and it wasn't possible on either one. But I did check Amtrak.com as well before posting.

It would seem that Amtrak is leaving money on the table for at least those two days, but who knows.

Planned summer season trackwork at New York is completed (so I am told), but The Cardinal is still operating as a Washington - Chicago train.

Amtrak trying to save money and/or free up track space at Sunnyside Yard?

Hi;
I was looking at the Cardinal schedule. First, the train runs only from Washington DC to Chicago, not from New York - due to ongoing trackwork at NYP.
So on the schedule, they show the connecting train to be #89 - the Palmetto. But what is confusing is that the timetable shows this train arriving at Baltimore Penn Station, and not at Washington DC, where the Cardinal departs.
The same is true for the reverse trip.
Does this mean that the train #89 does not stop at Washington? The passenger must get himself from Baltimore to Washington using MARC or other service?

Now, if I go to the NEC schedules, I see that train #89 does indeed run to Washington.

What's the deal?

CP

They only show you the Baltimore time for the Palmetto because it is just telling you "you arrive (nb)/depart (sb) Baltimore at this time on the connecting train" and you make the change at Washington. They felt no need to show how long you have to make the change at Washington.

Cardinal is once again originating and terminating at NYC's New York Penn Station.

jp1822 wrote:Cardinal is once again originating and terminating at NYC's New York Penn Station.

Although Amtrak’s online reservation system is showing 50/51 as a thru train between NYP and CHI in both directions, the online PDF format timetables have not been updated and still show it as being a WAS - CHI train in both directions.

According to Amtrak’s online reservation system, trains 50/51 are once again operating as a thru train between Chicago and New York in both directions. However, Amtrak has not yet updated their PDF format timetable for The Cardinal to reflect that situation.

jhdeasy wrote:According to Amtrak’s online reservation system, trains 50/51 are once again operating as a thru train between Chicago and New York in both directions. However, Amtrak has not yet updated their PDF format timetable for The Cardinal to reflect that situation.

Why am I not surprised the Amtrak website STILL has outdated PDF format timetables? My suspicion is that when 'they' decided to terminate production of printed timetables - which were likely generated from PDFs - they also terminated the employee(s) responsible for creating them! So, if we're lucky, there's MAYBE a part time college kid given the charge of updating the PDF timetables. At least they managed to get the Lakeshore Ltd timetable updated a/o 9/4. So they got part of it right.

It also appears that some of the online reservation possible routings have been pared back in the past year or so as well. Traveling SPG->CHI, all routings to the Capital Ltd via PGH as well as WAS are gone. So is all Cardinal options. Both trains were previously given as options. That also wipes out the 'conjunctive' fare discounts by taking those routings. I always preferred the extra train-time taking #141 to WAS then #29 to CHI. But then, buying dinner ahead of time and taking it with me from WAS is workable, but not desirable. Like I've done already...(included in the fare) breakfast in the diner is considerably better by walking straight through to the lounge car and paying for a 2nd breakfast.

Mod note - split from Horizon thread

Cardinal would be the perfect use of Horizon cars. Other than the corridor, it's a low-density route, so no need for slider doors. Also, DGVR mentions going daily. Try this on for size - drop the sleeper, make it a daily coach train. Pause in Charleston WV overnight, then leave again for Chicago in the morning. Each day. What you essentially have is two day trains, but this way it's the same train so it doesn't run afoul of the new PRIIA regs.

I suggest this because right now the Cardinal is not really useful to any market. It's not a great train Chicago-Indy, it calls on Cinci early morning, it's not the best overnight Chicago-New York solution, and there are plenty of trains to Virginia. What does it do well? Not much. A refocus might help, and an all-coach Horizon consist is the perfect solution.

Tadman wrote:What does it do well? Not much.

It keeps politicians in West Virginia happy.

Not to go too far off-topic but a schedule reboot could help the Cardinal greatly - by running slow between Cincinnati and Charleston. Like coal train slow, holding at CIN or CHW respectively until a 7:30am departure. It transforms one train into a CHI-CIN day train and a CHW-NYP day train sharing the same cars. That slow running and the holds also should eliminate the issues with CSX causing ever-increasing delays and making it impossible to catch up. By adding an additional bus bridge - dep CHW 5am arr CIN 7am (with guaranteed connection) and vice versa - you extend the reach of those day trains.

Anyway - the Horizon fleet would be good here. Am I correct in recalling that they served on the Three Rivers upon first delivery?

Right but is that service adequate? Could it be better? Would a new timetable help?

As of right now, the model of running one sleeper car a few times per week is a bit third world. I'd rather see a daily coach train with an overnight layover like Via's Skeena does. When I ask if this train does anything well, I ask as a rider. It's not convenient to many midpoint cities, and we've established that midpoints are important. It doesn't provide much of a public good as the sleepers rooms are expensive and the overall frequency of the train is poor. Nobody really wins here.

If this can be believed and is any indication:

There isn't a place in the system where added sleeper capacity wouldn't be felt. Rooms on the Cardinal are perpetually hard to book less than a month in advance, rooms on the Crescent charge enough to indicate plenty of latent demand, to say nothing of the overnight trains that don’t offer the amenity at all.

https://www.railpassengers.org/happenin ... -in-sight/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've said before the biggest markets should be Cincinnati and Indianapolis (Chicago and the NEC are served by the LSL and CL). But the Cardinal passes through CIN during the graveyard shift and IND at not much better times. So the train would be better served if it left CIN westbound early in the morning and arrived in CIN eastbound before midnight, maximizing the attractiveness of the train between CHI-IND-CHI.The train should still be able to serve Charlottesville-NYP in daylight hours. There are some old Cardinal schedules where the train served CIN-CHI in daylight hours although the train didn't serve IND during some of those times.

http://on-track-on-line.com/amtrak50-cardinal.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you can't serve CIN/IND at better trains, the train is worthless except as said to keep West Virginia politicians happy. Then they should pay for it instead of the rest of us.