Brightline (All Aboard Florida) Orlando - Miami FL FEC fka Virgin Rail

Count me among the skeptics here. Two years? Come on. This isn't the 1920s when a guy like Warfield can come in build 200 miles in a year to connect the old SAL mainline to South Florida. The different kind of ROW concerns that exists today is only the beginning.

I love Budd RDC's, but the SPV's (seldom-propelled-vehicles) were scrapped, I thought. There were some SPV conversions by CDOT that have been used as hurricane reserves for NOL, but I haven't heard of any of those in a while. Here these are:

http://cwrr.com/Lounge/Feature/ccr/ccr.html



and discussed here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 4&start=30

here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... e&start=45

and here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... +liner+spv I believe in this one, they are said to be stored and saved.

I think the ACES coaches would be great! And the previous list discussed excess VRE and Army cars. The Army cancelled its plan for a troop train from Fort Lee to Fort AP Hill in VA, so they have equipment they've purchased which can be used. And, speaking of VRE, CDOT has their cars they were using on SLE. Given the delivery of new cars there for MNRR, there's a possibility for a lease perhaps, until they get NHHS up and running. Lots of possibilities.

I was under the impression that all, or most, of the SPVs were converted into unpowered Constitution Liners. Granted, they're probably flea-infested hulks by now (wherever they are - Bear, maybe?) but if the FEC insists on 110 mph operation and has a VERY good passenger car shop on retainer, they could work.

My money is still on the Metrolink cars if this moves forward, or another supply of Bombardier bilevels, but the ACES coaches would be a classy group and capable of faster speeds.

mtuandrew wrote:Two things:
-The SPVs are also capable of 110 (125?) mph. I don't know if they're available, but they're certainly disused. For that matter, Amtrak would be silly not to consider leasing cars for the right (high) price. NJT or MARC might also be willing - I seem to recall that both run at 100 mph, and thus the Comets and the MARC bilevels would be capable of such speeds. Also, remember those unused Atlantic City ACES trainsets the NJT forum is abuzz about?

-I see that the FEC already "busted" its non-operating unions in a long fight back in the 1960s and 1970s. Do they still have operating unions?

The operating craft voted to organize about twenty years ago and are represented.

As for equipment, the FEC has always been a first class operation even in the worst of times. Don't look for them to acquire any 'junk' for their upcoming service.

mtuandrew wrote:I was under the impression that all, or most, of the SPVs were converted into unpowered Constitution Liners. Granted, they're probably flea-infested hulks by now (wherever they are - Bear, maybe?) but if the FEC insists on 110 mph operation and has a VERY good passenger car shop on retainer, they could work.

My money is still on the Metrolink cars if this moves forward, or another supply of Bombardier bilevels, but the ACES coaches would be a classy group and capable of faster speeds.

Probably New Haven, CT yard. That last thread had them stored with the FL9's.

D.Carleton wrote:The operating craft voted to organize about twenty years ago and are represented.

As for equipment, the FEC has always been a first class operation even in the worst of times. Don't look for them to acquire any 'junk' for their upcoming service.

Good to know, regarding the operating craft! In response to Mr. Norman's last post, I'd imagine that if FEC outsourced passenger service to a non-union company, they'd get some justified complaints from their operating unions.

Jeff: I probably shouldn't have even mentioned the SPVs. Mr. Carleton is probably right in that the FEC, or All Aboard Florida, would be loath to start with ill-maintained, orphan equipment.

What is the top speed of Bombardier bilevels? I've heard it variously claimed to be either 95mph or 110mph. I'm guessing the former is more likely. Is there any commuter line that currently runs Bombardier cars over 79mph?

Mr.T wrote:What is the top speed of Bombardier bilevels? I've heard it variously claimed to be either 95mph or 110mph. I'm guessing the former is more likely. Is there any commuter line that currently runs Bombardier cars over 79mph?

Metrolink has taken them to 90 I believe.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-1 ... er-service

Passenger train service between Miami and Orlando could begin as early as 2014 under a plan announced Thursday by Florida East Coast Industries.

The new "All Aboard Florida" service, which would be privately owned and operated, would offer frequent, regularly scheduled daily trains geared to business travelers and tourists. The Miami-Orlando trip by rail would take three hours, about the same time it takes by car via Florida's Turnpike.

There would be four stops: Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach and Orlando, each with connections to airports, seaports and existing rail systems such as Tri-Rail and Metrorail. The trains would run on existing FEC tracks that stretch along the east coast from Miami to Cocoa. Forty miles of new track would link Cocoa to Orlando.

Very encouraging development- and timely personally and anectdotally - I just rode a privately owned intercity railway yesterday (Kintetsu Railway) from Nagoya to Osaka. I certainly hope there will be a return to privately run intercity rail service- FEC is a conservatively run outfit, one that would look before they would jump on such a venture as this.

Regarding potential rolling stock, there is Kawasaki Heavy's "K-star" 125mph push-pull design. It's fully FRA compliant, can be built in the USA (Lincoln NE), and though its still vaporware, it likely can be produced relatively quickly, as its essentially a single level version of the MARC-III design.

This seems too good to be true, and the FAQs on the website indicate that the project hasn't yet been thoroughly planned:

"The estimated cost to construct this privately owned passenger rail service is approximately $1 billion. FECI has engaged an engineering firm to further define the costs of the project."

Wouldn't an engineering firm have been needing to do years of work already in order to have the service up and running by 2014?

"What kind of train will it be? Have you selected the equipment?
No train operator or rolling stock has been selected yet. "

"Where are the stops?
Exact station locations for All Aboard Florida are still being determined,..."

I'd say that it's a joke, but why would a well-regarded corporation put out something like this? Perhaps to knock Amtrak out of the picture, ensuring that FEC will be free to run freight trains, uninterrupted, since I see that Amtrak on FEC tracks is scheduled to start in 2015?

If FEC really plans to do this, it's a complete game-changer, and government had better get out of the way and let this happen.

mtuandrew wrote:Good to know, regarding the operating craft! In response to Mr. Norman's last post, I'd imagine that if FEC outsourced passenger service to a non-union company, they'd get some justified complaints from their operating unions.

Keep in mind that we are a Right-to-Work state. Whereas the T&E people will more than likely come from the existing pool the on-board service types need not be direct railroad employees. We shall see what develops.

SouthernRailway wrote:This seems too good to be true, and the FAQs on the website indicate that the project hasn't yet been thoroughly planned:

"The estimated cost to construct this privately owned passenger rail service is approximately $1 billion. FECI has engaged an engineering firm to further define the costs of the project."

Wouldn't an engineering firm have been needing to do years of work already in order to have the service up and running by 2014?

Keep in mind this is following in the footsteps of previous false starts at passenger service here. One of the options for the Orlando - Miami leg of the Florida Overland eXpress entailed building east from Orlando to Interstate 95. This replaces I-95 with the FEC. There has been close to 30 years of planning and studies for passenger rail in the Sunshine State. FEC is taking the stance of 'Just shut-up already and build it.'

SouthernRailway wrote:This seems too good to be true, and the FAQs on the website indicate that the project hasn't yet been thoroughly planned:

"The estimated cost to construct this privately owned passenger rail service is approximately $1 billion. FECI has engaged an engineering firm to further define the costs of the project."

Wouldn't an engineering firm have been needing to do years of work already in order to have the service up and running by 2014?

Wow, I missed that part. So no real engineering work done, no communication with government officials whatsoever, and this is to be done in two years? This really is unbecoming of a company of this caliber, particularly one that is completely familiar with the passenger rail proceedings of the state over the past few decades.

If it's over 240 miles, then $1 billion is only $4.2 million per mile. Not that much money especially compared to other contemporary rail projects.