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  • Amtrak's Least-Used Stations [FY2013]

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1231332  by Station Aficionado
 
With the publication of the complete ridership statistics at the Great American Stations website, I have again extracted the list of the least-used stations (<1000 in ridership). I'm putting this in a separate topic because it doesn't really belong in the "success story" thread, although it may not exactly represent failure either. I make this list because the question always occurs to me: why stop at a place that produces no significant ridership? Once again, tri-weekly stops predominate, along with one seasonal stop, plus the unique case of North Philadelphia. Here they are in descending order:

Port Kent NY 847[13] (848[12])
Connersville IN 771 (700)
Lordsburg NM 736 (483)
Montgomery WV 614 (580)
North Philadelphia PA 590 (294)
Alderson WV 586 (603)
Thurmond WV 563 (264)
Sanderson TX 261 (255)

So, four Cardinal stops, and two from the Sunset (both routes also have a number of stops in the 1000-3000 range). Obviously, daily service would improve these numbers, but how much? The last time I checked, Thurmond's year-round population was 5. There's probably more "noise" than "signal" in the y/o/y variations with these small numbers, but the increases at Lordsburg, North Philadelphia and Thurmond are striking. Lordsburg (from my homestate) and Sanderson are, I believe, the only two Amtrak stops that have both no platform and no shelter--riders board and alight at grade crossings.

It's probably unfair to include Port Kent on this list, as it's only open a bit over four months a year (when the Burlington ferry runs). Even so, it produced the highest number in this group.

North Philadelphia, of course, is an NEC stop, and GAS still says that 5 trains a day stop there (I haven't checked the current timetables to confirm). It's in a rather challenging location, and has been in decline for years. So why still stop there? (Granted, we have gone from about one Amtrak rider a day using the station to about two.).
 #1231337  by Franklin Gowen
 
Station Aficionado wrote: North Philadelphia, of course, is an NEC stop, and GAS still says that 5 trains a day stop there (I haven't checked the current timetables to confirm). It's in a rather challenging location, and has been in decline for years. So why still stop there? (Granted, we have gone from about one Amtrak rider a day using the station to about two.).
Emphasis mine. I speculate that PHN is still an Amtrak station stop because that is the location where SEPTA's ex-PRR Chestnut Hill West branch joins the NEC. Indeed, on the north side of the right-of-way the station has its own separate low-level platforms specifically for the Chestnut Hill pax to and from the mainline high platforms via pedestrian tunnel. The territory served by that commuter branch is entirely within the city, and roughly the outer half of it still has a certain faint cachet of upper-crust cash and influence. That's diminished a lot since PRR stock was traded on Wall Street, but you get the idea.

Amidst the predominant flow into Center City Philadelphia from CHW stations, there are likely a few hardy souls who still change trains at PHN for destinations in the opposite direction: towards New York. In years gone by, such ridership was catered to by Amtrak's weekday-only, rush hour-only PHL-NYP Clocker service. Sometime in the early-to-mid 2000s, those trains' slots into Penn Station were reportedly sold to NJ Transit, who truncated them into TRE-NYP expresses. SEPTA's own Trenton commuter trains still do exist, of course; as a former rider of them, I well recall quite a few folks boarding them at North Philadelphia in the early morning for points east. But now, I'm thinking solely of SEPTA-to-Amtrak transfer ridership at this lightly-served and quite Spartan station.

Anyhow, I don't have any numbers to support this conjecture; just historical perspective as an interested local observer. Thanks for bringing up this interesting niche-within-a-niche subject. Like you, I am also curious to know just why PHN is still in Amtrak's public timetable.
 #1231492  by jp1822
 
Noel Weaver wrote:During the period that the ferry is operating probably the best route between New York and Burlington, Vermont is via Port Kent and the ferry.
Noel Weaver
Absolutely!!! I think this is a hidden gem!
 #1231499  by hi55us
 
North Philadelphia is largely a commuter rail stop and only sees 2 eastbound amtrak trains every day (6AM and 7AM) and 3 Westbound trains (4, 6:20 and 8 PM). I'm guessing it doesn't show a large number of riders as a lot of riders are using monthly passes (which may not be counted by the train crew or the back office folks) or the passengers buy tickets from Philly (which gives them added flexability if they can't make it to North Philly).

With a big center high level platform (that I believe has access to every track), it makes sense to keep PHN on the schedule.

With regards to this list, I wish they would highlight passenger counts as a count per # of trains. For instance New Rochelle, NY doesn't get a of trains, but it seems like every time I'm on a train stopping there, there is a lot of people getting off. According to the Great American Stations website 81,757 people got off at New Rochelle in 2013. On a weekday, 5 westbound trains stop there and 6 eastbound trains stop there. 11 Trains per day means 4,015 trains per year or 20.4(81,757/4015) passengers per train.

Likewise, Stamford, CT had 388,773 passengers and 39 trains per day (14,235 total trains) which gives it 27.3 passengers per train. This metric is most useful, obviously, when studying a corridor with trains that make limited stops and trains that make every stop.
 #1231560  by n2cbo
 
I believe that North Philadelphia is there as a "Legacy" stop back from the days when The "Broadway" did not make 30th St. It was the ONLY stop in Philadelphia for the Broadway since it did not make the reverse move through ZOO like the Keystone Service (NYP - Harrisburg) does.
 #1231581  by Station Aficionado
 
I think Mr. Gowen and n2cbo are correct that North Philadelphia is a legacy station. It reminds me of a "parliamentary train" in the UK--a train run as little as once a week (with few riders) to maintain legislatively mandated service. Perhaps some Philadelphia poobah insists on continued service. Of course, I understand that Amtrak has begun test runs to see if it's feasible to substitute Bala Cynwyd for North Philadelphia. :-D

I agree with hi55us that per train averages are very useful for stops with multiple frequencies. Those number can get a little skewed though, depending on the actual mix of frequencies--e.g., one of the frequencies at Stamford is 66, which stops in the wee hours. Doubt there are many on/off's for that train. Also, it's important to remember that per-station ridership is boardings + alightings. So, if a station has an average of 20 riders per train, that will likely average to 10 boardings and 10 alightings. (Boardings and alightings are unlikely to be exactly equal for any particular train, but should be roughly equal when examined for all trains over a longer period--e.g., a year.).
 #1231621  by Tadman
 
This is an interesting topic. I think that legislation addressing this topic would be far more useful than legislation requiring states to independently fund sub-750 mile routes. Think about it - it costs Amtrak a fixed fee to stop an average consist at a station, whether busy or dead empty. You have to stop X tons of steel, then start it again. If a legislation were written that says "each town with ridership below Y people must fund the marginal costs of stopping" it would incentivize towns to build clean stations in good areas. This would promote ridership, rather than the current legislation, which may actually have a negative affect on ridership (due to states like Indiana not willing to pay for a train).
 #1231723  by MACTRAXX
 
n2cbo wrote:I believe that North Philadelphia is there as a "Legacy" stop back from the days when The "Broadway" did not make 30th St. It was the ONLY stop in Philadelphia for the Broadway since it did not make the reverse move through ZOO like the Keystone Service (NYP - Harrisburg) does.
n2cbo: I agree with your thoughts on PHN...In 1980 Amtrak decided to transfer the
engine change on the Broadway Limited from Harrisburg to Philadelphia and also
during that early 80s period (?) the Broadway's Washington section was changed to
WAS-PHL when the Port Road along the Susquehanna River from Perryville to HAR
was made freight only...

For a time the Broadway's Washington section ran WAS-PHL and then was eliminated in
favor of regular scheduled connecting trains after this route change...If anyone can help
further clarifying when and how the WAS section changes were made I would appreciate
it...

I feel that North Philadelphia has suffered for some time because of its image and
I will also note that over time that SEPTA has increased its train service at PHN and
at the same time Amtrak has cut theirs to the small number stopping there these days...

PHN is a special case because it is the only low-ride Amtrak station with commuter
trains also directly serving that location...

MACTRAXX
 #1231745  by Tadman
 
PHN reminds me of Chicago's Englewood station. It was both a busy commuter spot for RI and NYC as well as the secondary suburban stop for the RI, NYC, and PRR's long distance trains. By the late 60's, RI was the only commuter service left. The state made a quiet deal with the railroads - upgrade your commuter service and you can drop most of your inner-city commuter stations. PC and RI dropped all LD service and even the station is gone, despite the fact that all Detroit and east coast trains go right past the station. I think back to PHN and question why PRR never cut that deal with the state of PA, and the answer goes back to the fact that PHN was the only stop for LD trains to the west.
 #1231849  by LIRR272
 
This may be off topic but since it Amtrak's Broadway Limited was mentioned I have to ask the question: Coming from NY, did the Broadway ever stop at 30th St. Station? If not how did they make the engine change back when they had E60's. I rode that train as a kid but have little memories of the ride.
 #1231854  by Backshophoss
 
I rode the Broadway Ltd the summer before it was discontinued,NYP to 30th street,consist was "backwards" to philly, Electric power
dropped at the west end of 30th street,Diesel power coupled on the east end,then west to H-burg/Chicago.
PHN's claim to "fame" was it was the only philly stop for the west bound LD PRR trains to the west when the "NY-Pittsburg Subway"(Zoo twr)
was used . Not sure if PRR ran shuttle service 30th street-PHN for the LD's connections.
 #1232301  by ExCon90
 
Normally they just used the scheduled Chestnut Hill and Trenton locals. At Suburban Station, there would be two signs at the head of each stairway: the top sign might say Chestnut Hill, and the bottom one would say Connection for the Clevelander, or whatever. There was a composite poster-type schedule of all trains serving Suburban, 30th St., and North Philadelphia displayed at the downtown stations. As I recall, when a westbound train arrived at North Philadelphia an announcement would be made directing passengers to the appropriate platform for a train arriving from Trenton or Chestnut Hill for 30th St. and Suburban Station.
 #1233880  by Suburban Station
 
indeed the chestnut hill west trains have provided nec trains with ridership ever since the line opened in the 1880's. first the area went into decline then amtrak service. the most recent slight to north philadelphia was when they changed the two departures from something like 7:08 am and 740 am to 5:35 am (110) and 7:08 am. nobody wants to be there at 530 am and moreover there is no Chestnut hill west connecting train there. a handful of passengers do the commute, I've seen as many as 12, most buy tickets from Philly. the time to abandon the stop was probably ten years ago. the area is no longer in decline and development is creeping north. amtrak should restore the stopping pattern from earlier in the decade and add weekend stops on the keystone trains. all stops should be coordinated with the chw. I suspect north philly can beat port kent! ; )