Alstom Coradia Multilevel Coaches

NBC 5 Chicago just reported that METRA's ridership is 40% of Pre-COVID levels.

To add to this conversation...

Eliminating train lines is stupid. Ridership will increase, and Metra needs to adapt. They know that. They plan to move away from a commuter model and towards a regional one. They noticed that off-peak weekday travel has increased more than the traditional 9-5 commenter travel.

The idea of "Oh it doesn't work let's just eliminate it" is mind-boggling. Where would the world be today if we gave up on anything that lost money? I used to drive to the city, but gas prices and the convenience of Metra made me switch. It's much better for everyone, and if Metra does its best to position itself as a viable and comfortable alternative to driving, more and more people will switch.

https://metra.com/sites/default/files/M ... index.html

DominikW118 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 5:17 pm Eliminating train lines is stupid. Ridership will increase, and Metra needs to adapt.

The idea of "Oh it doesn't work let's just eliminate it" is mind-boggling. Where would the world be today if we gave up on anything that lost money?

Mr. Dominick W, I've never said METRA should arbitrarily eliminate mid day service along the lines that presently offer it - and perhaps expand it to the lines like the WAB and SOO, I've simply said that they should use every means at hand to bail out of the 200 bi-level car order.

The traditional 9-5 five day commute is simply never coming back. This likely is the most profound change from what I hopefully can call "the COVID era".

But, as I have previously noted at this topic, METRA should be looking at the overseas sources - Europe and Asia - that have DMU sets in their catalogs. Some, like Stadler (Swiss) already have, at the least, assembly facilities over here (coupling that with US sourced raw materials hopefully will meet the "buy American" parameters).

I realize for me, the only reasons I have to "go into town" is the Symphony and to meet out-of-town friends that occasionally come this way. But, suffice to say, I have neighbors who frequently go to sporting events and "concerts" you'd never catch me near, and if there were half hourly service through the night, they just might bite rather than the SUV getting stuck on the Eisenhower.

It would be nice if they looked for EMU/DMU's, but the way that the state government refuses to increase funding for Metra is hampering it. I'm not exactly thrilled with the SD70MACH purchase. But the Alstom cars are possibly the best bet Metra has in terms of modernizing its fleet.

Another thing is that you have to look at the weird FRA rules. Caltrain had to apply for exceptions in order to run Stadler EMU's because the FRA forbids such multiple units and freight trains from operating on the same track due to "safety concerns". And if you consider my home line, UP-West, that line is packed with freights going to Global II. So good luck in trying to knock some sense into the FRA.

I'm with Gilbert, for a large metro area, most of that service should be DMU/EMU at least twice an hour.
With passing sidings negotiated with the Class 1s to allow them to zip by.
Not large commuter trains. I would say, keep that gear around for crush load events.

You want to keep the big trains around for crush loads, but have a second set of equipment for the non-peak times?...

Nope. Not gonna pay the taxes on that. Running shorter trains during off-peak hours would be a better option than purchasing a second set of equipment...

With Metra taking over the crewing and operations on the UP, maybe the cost and opposition to doing those switching moves will shift.

Well considering they are moving away from traditional commuter service towards a “regional rail” model, I don’t think that’s a concern. Plus according to Metra, off-peak is actually bouncing back quicker and better than peak. Plus I think they’re just buying the equipment to replace the old ones that are just awful.

Though I’ve always wondered why not detach some cars. Wouldn’t that be less fuel? (Probably come in handy with the jank battery locomotives )

Whether or not Metra "bails out" of the 200 car order depends on the serviceability of the current fleet and the penalty for cancelling the order. Once they decide how big the fleet should be they can work out a schedule that best fits the passengers.

NICTD / South Shore is facing a similar challenge of retooling their service to fit "the new normal" for passenger service. Fortunately NICTD was able to lease used cars from METRA to increase the number of cars available for service as they work toward plans that will increase the number of trains by about 50% plus add the West Lake corridor service. They won't have trains end to end every 30 minutes, but we could see hourly service with shorter trains.

So what does "the new normal" look like for Metra? Could they retool the service using their existing rolling stock? Cab cars, engines and turn time would be major factors in making and keeping an aggressive "every 30 minute" schedule.

Mr. Lurker, the irony of it all.

What if..........the full social impact of COVID (yes, I think it fair statement that the Pandemic is over) had been known before METRA placed this (ya'gotta'gree) very ill-timed equipment order.

Would have they still gone through with it, or would have they been looking at the existing DMU equipment from overseas sources?

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:33 am Would have they still gone through with it, or would have they been looking at the existing DMU equipment from overseas sources?

Yes, they would.

Metra is extremely allergic to change. Their obsession to EMD is a prime example. Plus they mentioned in their press materials about this order that they would be interoperable with the existing gallery cars.

I’m no railroad executive, but I think that transitioning over to DMU’s and retraining and adjusting shops etc. are costs Metra doesn’t want to have. And the UP takeover is happening and God knows what the costs and impact of that will be. But that’s my opinion, I have no idea what it all truly entails.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:33 amWould have they still gone through with it, or would have they been looking at the existing DMU equipment from overseas sources?

Existing equipment used overseas repurposed in Chicago? Never. New equipment designed for the American market that complies with American standards? As long as it also meets the "Buy America" standards.

The order was placed in January 2021 - well after the major drop in passenger load. Perhaps there was some "optimism" that all of the passengers would return but the order itself (200 to 500 cars) shows acceptance that Metra will only be obligated to purchase the cars they need. Even with reduced passenger loads, Metra needs to replace aged rail cars.

Mr. Lurker, thank you for reporting the correct date METRA placed the order for the new cars. I thought the order was placed during '20, when no one really "knew what we were in for".

Even during '21, as we "rolled 'em up for the jab", I don't think anyone was conscious of the likely permanent socio-economic changes that would arise.

But now, I think METRA's Board is Kubler-Ross Phase 5 - Acceptance: "they're never coming back".

I further grant you that that are '60's vintage cars on the system - and some are carbon steel and paint (C&NW, RI). Maybe the 200 cars can be put to use, along with the 90's vintage Nippon cars. This fleet would be used for the rush hour trains systemwide.

It just seems like someone with purse strings - elected or otherwise - will start making noise about an eight car train, with seating for 1,000 passengers, leaving CUS or C&NW, with 150 aboard. That is why I think METRA should be considering DMU equipment for mid day service. I've ridden such overseas; yes, they are a bus on raIls, but if 150 "butts on the cushions" is all you can expect in our post-pandemic environment, best plan your equipment procurement around that "new normal".

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:10 pm It just seems like someone with purse strings - elected or otherwise - will start making noise about an eight car train, with seating for 1,000 passengers, leaving CUS or C&NW, with 150 aboard. That is why I think METRA should be considering DMU equipment for mid day service. I've ridden such overseas; yes, they are a bus on raIls, but if 150 "butts on the cushions" is all you can expect in our post-pandemic environment, best plan your equipment procurement around that "new normal".

I want to add my thought to this.
Say they ordered a 4-Car set from Stradler. Either a 1-level or Bi-level. If they need more capacity, they can just smash them together and bam! 8 car train.
Plus a single-level multiple-unit is lighter, possibly some fuel savings, and less wear and tear?

Either way, I'm stoked for new cars irregardless of its merits. It will be a fresh new look from the dreadful metal siding.

We just saw recently where the LIRR managed to cut back from 12 car trains to a standard 8 car train across their system.

From the gnashing of teeth in the related forums here, you would have thought that they went back to heavyweight cars.

Apparently it's working.

I think the days of 9 and 11 car express trains on Metra are short lived. It will not surprise me to see trains cut back to a more standard 6 cars even for peak periods.

The love of DMU's from some people in this group is boggling.

Where's the actual value proposition for that?

Crew and fuel are by far the largest expenses, and proposing to effectively double the crew expense moving from 60-minute headways to 30-minute headways is downright irresponsible.

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With the existing equipment what is the planned dwell time at a station, and what effect does (un)boarding a wheelchair user have on that (i.e., does (un)boarding a wheelchair user delay a train such that it is no longer on schedule)? It seems to me that these new coaches should help speed the boarding of passengers in wheelchairs (or with bicycles, prams, shopping carts, etc).