Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfliner

The Cascade sets are based on RENFE's Talgo "Pendular" design used in Spain and part of southern France.
the cars are smaller in lenght and hight then an Amfleet car built for the "loading gauge" of RENFE system.

STrRedWolf wrote:Okay, forgive me for coming in late on this question. I've tried to search just this thread (using what I thought was the "in thread only" search) and got all the threads in the forum.

What's the car dimensions of the passenger Talgos cars? Are they half the size of a regular car (like what is run on the NEC)?

Dimensions:
Amfleet:
Car body construction = Stainless steel
Car length = 85 ft (25.91 m)
Width = 9 ft 11.5 in (3.035 m)
Height = 12 ft 8 in (3.861 m)
Floor height = 4 ft 3.5 in (1.308 m)
Weight = 106,000 pounds (48,000 kg) (coach) = 110,000 pounds (50,000 kg) (cafe)
Acela:
Car body construction = Stainless Steel
Train length = 665 feet 8.75 inches (202.91 m)
Car length = 69 feet 7 inches (21.21 m) (Power car) = 87 feet 5 inches (26.64 m) (Passenger Car)
Width = 10 feet 5 inches (3.18 m) (Power car) = 10 feet 4 1⁄2 inches (3.16 m) (Passenger Car)
Height = 14 feet 2 inches (4.32 m) (Power car; rail to roof) = 13 feet 10 5⁄8 inches (4.23 m) (Passenger Car)
Floor height = 4 feet 3 inches (1.30 m)
Weight = 1,246,000 lb (565 t) (Trainset) = 204,000 lb (93 t) (Power Car) = 142,000 lb (64 t) (End Cars; Business and First) = 139,000 lb (63 t) (Intermediate Business Cars) = 137,000 lb (62 t) (Bistro Car)
Talgo:
Car body construction = aluminum- alloy extrusions
Car Length = 43’ 1” (13.14 m) (coach) = 4 8' 10" (cab)
Width = 9’ 6” (2.94 m)
Height = 11’ 10” (3.60 m) (coach) = 13' 1" (Cab)
Floor height = 2' 6" (0.76 m)
Weight = 103,617 lbs (Cab and aux power) = 38,000 lbs (coach)

Check out their Series 8 brochure which has photos of the ex-Wisconsin equipment.
http://web.talgoamerica.com/images/Amra ... ed_opt.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To put that into perspective with the Acela train sets, the ex-Wisconsin sets with 13 coaches and 1 cab would weight 597,617 lbs. Add the weight of one F50PHI locomotive, 265,000 lbs, we have a total train weight of 862,617 lbs - about 65% of an Acela train weight.

Hope that helps!

Here are the details:
Tuesday, the California State Transportation Agency (CalSTA) announced 14 recipients for the 2016 Transit and Intercity Capital Program (TIRCP) grants. The group of projects moves forward the Brown Administration’s focus on reducing harmful greenhouse gas emissions while advancing the state’s public transportation system. This year’s awards total $390 million in competitive grants made possible through the state’s Cap and Trade auction proceeds.
http://calsta.ca.gov/Newsroom/CalSTA-Ne ... rants.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From PDF:
Construct track improvements and lease 31 new Talgo rail cars for faster and more frequent service on Amtrak, Metrolink and Coaster
$ 82,000,000

Amtrak travel times between Los Angeles and San Diego are expected to be about 10 minutes faster for the typical train. Two new Talgo trainsets will be leased for five years and utilized to deliver service between Los Angeles and San Luis Obispo that is about 25 minutes faster as well as more fuel efficient.

Also Amtrak related:
Construct track and facility improvements for 3 Amtrak roundtrips per day between Sacramento and Roseville (up from 1 today)

electricron wrote:Check out their Series 8 brochure which has photos of the ex-Wisconsin equipment.
http://web.talgoamerica.com/images/Amra ... ed_opt.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ooooo, floor plans too! That's the thing I didn't realize, that the trucks for the cars were at the joint between cars, and the whole train set was unified (so that if one car breaks down, the whole thing breaks down). That'll be interesting to see and ride.

Too bad my travels to the west coast will be only to San Jose, CA.

Acela train sets are they same, one car malfunctions and the whole train is placed out of service until it is fixed.

The "given" is there's a Talgo tech with each set on every trip,to keep the set in service.

So what? If it gives better availability, and costs the same or less, why the hell not? The bonus is a factory rep can generally get back data to the engineering department a lot faster than the customer's maintenance folks.

Probably less likely to encounter a toilet that looks like the black hole of Calcutta with a tech on board. I assume they would do cleaning in such a situation as well.

As long as the fresh water tanks were filled and the holding tanks were drained when the set is serviced.

Nasadowsk wrote:So what? If it gives better availability, and costs the same or less, why the hell not? The bonus is a factory rep can generally get back data to the engineering department a lot faster than the customer's maintenance folks.

We don't know what the ride-along tech costs, or what costs the ride-along tech is itemizing for the shop as he/she is riding along, because WSDOT hasn't been very transparent at all about reporting that. It could be no big to-do....but caveat emptor.

Straight from one of the Talgo tech's mouth was he gets paid by Talgo and his salary from he understands is a cost related to the service agreement with WSDOT, which might be why its not a direct line item.....

Any updates; especially the routing when the sets are moved?

If BEE-CSX-CHI-BNSF-LAX, I just might go trackside if they passed here during waking hours, and I had assurance they were adhering to something resembling a schedule.

Personally, I think this is a perfect home for the Talgos – a rail line that runs along the California Coast Line and then runs parallel to it more or less. With a coastline that twists and turns as well other inland areas from LA to San Luis Obispo, the Talgos would seem to prove that they could operate well in such a region. Hopefully the next stop/step is to get the train sets up to the Bay Area (preferably up the peninsula and into San Francisco.

Edit: I wonder if they will paint the outside of the train in the Pacific Surfliner colors of blue, grey, white scheme. That would be a little nicer than the red in my opinion. Also, I know there was discussion that the "Diner" was not large enough, but it would seat 30 people, as opposed to 40 on say a FULL conventional Viewliner Diner (and most Heritage Diners). I've seen the diner operate with one person serving and the same person "nuking the food" with the conductor helping out. Yes - the conductor! Observed this on the Pacific Northwest Corridor Talgo trains just before the full morning breakfast and full evening dinner was yanked from the offering. The person did an excellent job. Even on the last Metroliner that operated (6 pm departure from NYP), one person did the serving and cooking for about 30 people. I have no doubt the person was working double duty and tired afterwards, but it worked. If the train were extended to San Francisco, a breakfast and at least lunch would seem to be in the mix to offer aboard the train. Pending on how much time and padding they can take out of the schedule, dinner could be had at the terminal city with just snacks served in between the sit down meal times. The breakfast and dinner on the Cascade train between Seattle and Vancouver, BC was VERY popular, but the State claimed it was too much of a money drain.............

jp1822 wrote:Edit: I wonder if they will paint the outside of the train in the Pacific Surfliner colors of blue, grey, white scheme. That would be a little nicer than the red in my opinion. Also, I know there was discussion that the "Diner" was not large enough, but it would seat 30 people, as opposed to 40 on say a FULL conventional Viewliner Diner (and most Heritage Diners). I've seen the diner operate with one person serving and the same person "nuking the food" with the conductor helping out. Yes - the conductor! Observed this on the Pacific Northwest Corridor Talgo trains just before the full morning breakfast and full evening dinner was yanked from the offering. The person did an excellent job. Even on the last Metroliner that operated (6 pm departure from NYP), one person did the serving and cooking for about 30 people. I have no doubt the person was working double duty and tired afterwards, but it worked. If the train were extended to San Francisco, a breakfast and at least lunch would seem to be in the mix to offer aboard the train. Pending on how much time and padding they can take out of the schedule, dinner could be had at the terminal city with just snacks served in between the sit down meal times. The breakfast and dinner on the Cascade train between Seattle and Vancouver, BC was VERY popular, but the State claimed it was too much of a money drain.............

Sadly, all the talk about the dinner car is wasted, the Wisconsin Talgo's don't have a dinner table car, just the Bistro car providing high stool lunch counters bar seats.
Of course, a brand new car could be added onto the train - but where would it be built and when will it be built?

electricron wrote: Of course, a brand new car could be added onto the train - but where would it be built and when will it be built?

Talgo in Seattle can still do manufacturing...Well, the 1st generation Taglo Cascades sets were assembled at a boat manufacturer that had space.