Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfliner

Surely a camera could solveforward visability problems.-------

Matt Johnson wrote:Surely it's not that hard to design a nice sleek looking FRA compliant cab. After all, it's been done before!

As Winston Churchill said, "Never give in."

Actually that platypus effect on the Talgo in the photo posted by EricL first appeared, I think, on a Deutsche Bundesbahn design of a 4-car high-speed (for the time) electric trainset introduced sometime around the 1970's (?) and whose last revenue service was as Lufthansa specials (painted in Lufthansa yellow-and-blue livery) providing connecting services from international flights at Frankfurt to Cologne, Stuttgart, etc. They formed part of a through service from, e.g., JFK to Cologne or Stuttgart, with passengers transferring at the Frankfurt Airport station, with through ticketing and baggage checking. I think the Germans referred to them as Donald Ducks.

Did we have a Wolverine/Michigan trackwork thread? Seems like that went quiet or got subsumed here. I'd like to know where things stand on the ground. (we had a "Michigan ROW Purchase" thread and a "Upcoming Work in Michigan" thread)

Googling around, the last information on the tracks is from theGreatLakesRail.org site in October 2014, where it was said (my bolding)

Kalamazoo-Dearborn
Starting in 2013, MDOT began rehabilitating the track and upgrading the signal system for a 135-mile segment
purchased from Norfolk Southern Railroad on December 7, 2012. MDOT has replaced over 138,000 ties, surfaced 135
miles of track, and replaced over 160,000 linear feet of rail. Upgrades to the signal systems started in Kalamazoo and will
continue moving east to Dearborn through 2016. Also, Amtrak has been upgrading the track curves and grade crossings
from Kalamazoo to Battle Creek.

MDOT is starting a double track project in Wayne County that includes installing nine miles of new track, replacing up to
20 grade crossings and installing new turnouts and crossovers. The double track project is schedule to be completed by
the end of 2015. Once the proposed track work and signal upgrades are completed in 2016, MDOT will increase the
speeds up to 110 mph from Kalamazoo to Battle Creek and from Ypsilanti to Dearborn.

Speeds between Battle Creek to Ypsilanti will remain 79mph or less until MDOT performs future track projects to allow speeds up to 110mph.

West Detroit Connection
Nearly $16 million of federal and state funding is being used to construct a new interlocking that provides a direct
connection between the CN and Conrail Shared Assets mainlines. This project will improve travel times by separating
freight and passenger services and eliminating a long standing rail bottleneck in the Detroit area.
The MDOT portion of the project, which includes the bridge and grading for the new track, is scheduled for completion
May 2015. The railroad components (CN and Conrail), which involves the track work signals and communication systems
is scheduled for completion in late 2015

David Benton wrote:Surely a camera could solveforward visability problems.-------

it's a complicated issue here in level-crossing-covered, un-fenced-in America. lawsuits in case of trespasser collisions all too often go against the railroad, and it is now common practice for the ambulance chasers to personally find and name the engineer himself as a defendant. therefore, a concern with such a big blind spot (besides things like dwarf signal visibility, visibility around sharp curves, what have you) is that if some one/some thing is on the tracks - or happens to climb in under there amidst a stop, or something - and the engineer couldn't/didn't react til too late... that won't go over too well.

ExCon90 wrote:Actually that platypus effect on the Talgo in the photo posted by EricL first appeared, I think, on a Deutsche Bundesbahn design of a 4-car high-speed (for the time) electric trainset introduced sometime around the 1970's (?) and whose last revenue service was as Lufthansa specials (painted in Lufthansa yellow-and-blue livery) providing connecting services from international flights at Frankfurt to Cologne, Stuttgart, etc. They formed part of a through service from, e.g., JFK to Cologne or Stuttgart, with passengers transferring at the Frankfurt Airport station, with through ticketing and baggage checking. I think the Germans referred to them as Donald Ducks.

I would take a Donald Duck over the Magic School Bus!

Arlington - DOT's bridge in West Detroit is in place waiting for track. I saw it last week.

So no sign of Talgos stirring in Beech Grove? Isn't this getting expensive for someone at this point?

What a shame this is happening. And Detroit/Pontiac - Chicago is an ideal route for these trains.

Arlington wrote: … a Wolverine/Michigan trackwork thread? Seems like that went quiet or got subsumed here. I'd like to know where things stand on the ground. (we had a "Michigan ROW Purchase" thread and a "Upcoming Work in Michigan" thread)
…
[/b] Once the proposed track work and signal upgrades are completed in 2016, MDOT will increase the speeds up to 110 mph from Kalamazoo to Battle Creek and from Ypsilanti to Dearborn.

Speeds between Battle Creek to Ypsilanti will remain 79mph or less until MDOT performs future track projects to allow speeds up to 110mph.

West Detroit Connection
Nearly $16 million of federal and state funding is being used to construct a new interlocking … separating freight and passenger services and eliminating a long standing rail bottleneck ... scheduled for completion in late 2015

+++++++++++++++++++

Re: Amtrak Michigan: Wolverine, Blue Water, Pere Marquette
twropr wrote:
On Mon. Dec. 21, the WOLVERINES began using the new West Detroit Connector, some trains making the Detroit-Dearborn run in 17 min. Am told that the new track has a 40 MPH speed limit... The new track is signaled, so there should be no more stopping to line switches.

++++++++++++++++++++

Woody adds:
A while back a MDOT official said this project alone would save 10 minutes from the timetable. ... Looking forward to seeing the rest of the upgrades kick in.

Arlington, I'd also like to see a thread on Wolverine track work, if anyone can do updates.

MDOT made the deadline on the West Detroit Connector, and that's good.

But what's this stuff you quoted? "… in 2016, MDOT will increase the speeds up to 110 mph from Kalamazoo to Battle Creek and from Ypsilanti to Dearborn. Speeds between Battle Creek to Ypsilanti will remain 79 mph or less until MDOT performs future track projects to allow speeds up to 110mph."

What are "future" projects? Will they be completed in 2017? Or will work proceed only after MDOT gets ahold of another $100 million or so?

If the Wolverines are not gonna run 110 mph on the full Dearborn-Kalamazoo purchase by the end of 2017, that's a significant, and terrible, backsliding from what was promised.

Do we need to rename to WI Talgos - MI Talgos - now CA Talgos? (assuming 31 is the correct number of Talgo cars in Beech Grove...)

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news ... unced.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Two Talgo trainsets (a total of 31 cars) are to be leased for five years to operate between Los Angeles and San Luis Obispo, offering reductions in journey times of 25 min.

http://www.masstransitmag.com/press_rel ... il-service" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Talgo Rail Equipment: Provides a five-year capital lease, including maintenance, for 31 rail cars to replace aging trainsets.

I think these Talgos are well suited to this route. I would like to see it extended to Downtown San Francisco though .

dowlingm wrote:Do we need to rename to WI Talgos - MI Talgos - now CA Talgos? (assuming 31 is the correct number of Talgo cars in Beech Grove...)

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news ... unced.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Two Talgo trainsets (a total of 31 cars) are to be leased for five years to operate between Los Angeles and San Luis Obispo, offering reductions in journey times of 25 min.

http://www.masstransitmag.com/press_rel ... il-service" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Talgo Rail Equipment: Provides a five-year capital lease, including maintenance, for 31 rail cars to replace aging trainsets.

That lease for both train sets is for 5 years and for a total of $15 million. I'm not sure that includes maintenance.
Each ex-Wisconsin train set had 14 cars, with three spares; both end cars and the bistro car. That does add up to 31 cars. http://archive.jsonline.com/news/wiscon ... 48321.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Under Doyle and a Democratically held Legislature, the state agreed in 2009 to a no-bid contract to buy two new train sets from Talgo Inc. for Amtrak's Hiawatha line, which runs from Milwaukee to Chicago, for $47.5 million as well as additional trains for a proposed Madison to Milwaukee line.
Talgo, a Spanish company with U.S. headquarters in Seattle, was paid $42.2 million for the trains before the lawsuit, according to the state Department of Transportation. The state expended millions of dollars more for a temporary maintenance base and planning for a permanent base, spare parts and consulting fees.
The manufacturer ended up suing Walker and Transportation Secretary Mark Gottlieb seeking a clean title to the trains — and also sought an additional $10 million as a final payment on them — and has reached a settlement that largely achieves that, said Lester Pines, an attorney for Talgo. If the manufacturer is able to sell the trains, it will return 30% of the net proceeds of the sale, up to a limit of $9.7 million, to Wisconsin.

With this $15 million 5 year lease, Talgo has balanced the books in building them. Because it is a lease and not a sale, Wisconsin doesn't get 30% of the $15 million. Sweet!

Link to photo of the three spare cars
http://media.bizj.us/view/img/2866801/t ... -0-432.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Link to photo of 14 cars in a train set
http://media.bizj.us/view/img/2796111/t ... -0-276.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Their relatively shorter height makes these trains look extremely long, one might think too long for the existing station platforms, but they are only about half as long as a traditional rail car, so the 14 car Talgo train is about the same length as a 7 car Superliner/Surfliner train.

Each Superlunar/Surfline car is around 85 feet long, each Talgo car (except possibly the cab car) is around 42.5 feet long.
Some math follows.
42.5 feet x 14 cars = 595 feet = 85 feet x 7 cars
Assuming they use the same available locomotive, no differences in length. But do all Surfliner trains use 7 cars? Do they use more? From the initial YouTube videos I'd watched, they using 6 Surfliner/Superliner cars today.

Interesting. There's not currently a LA - San Luis Obispo service separate from the San Diego - San Luis Obispo Surfliners, correct?

Yes, and to have both a morning to afternoon run and a noon to evening run in both directions, that uses 4 train sets. At 6 cars per train set, that's 24 cars going all the way to San Luis Obispo every day.
With just two Talgo train sets, that's an impossible task to accomplish to go all the way south to San Diego. But if they turned the Talgo trains in Los Angeles, it will be possible to run a morning to afternoon and an afternoon to evening train both ways from San Luis Obispo to L.A. This allows a potential 4 more trains per day to be ran from Santa Barbara to Los Angeles while keeping the same number of trains from Santa Barbara to San Diego, or just the opposite, 4 or more trains from Los Angeles to San Diego while keeping the same number of trains from Santa Barbara to Los Angeles. It could be a win-win for passengers traveling both north and south of Los Angeles - depending upon how they change the train schedules to accommodate the two new train sets.

Considering the recent events with Nippon's failed crush test at the factory,this is a CYA move by Amtrak-California operators
to cover service expansion plans.(if any?)

So are they going to do servicing in Seattle or is Talgo going to setup a makeshift shop somewhere in SoCal?