Why did Panama REDUCE 5' to 4'8.5"?

My great uncle, a genious and a steam locomotivengineer on the PRR,
said it was unfortunate we settled on 4'8.5" instead of someting larger.
Said gauge limited size locomotives could attain.

Are broad gauge passenger cars smoother riding and more spacious?

Thank you,

PS Could we have a section about tracks, signals, etc.
I am fascinated with signals especially semaphores, wig-wags, etc.
I am in Yantai, China until 8-29.
They have dwarf signals with BLUE color. What does blue mean?

Well, this is the correct forum for international (non-North American rail systems...well, non-US and Canada systems anyway).
And we have discussed track gauge here before
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3172

However, there are two other possible forums, Railroad Operations, and Railroad Locomotives, Rolling Stock, and Equipment (or somesuch) which are also locial for this type of question, albiet they tend toward the North American side...

Remember, Narrow gauge was used for many American lines (and other countries lines too - New Zealand, a favorite topic on this forum, is Narrow gauge, and works quite well (or would if they ever get everything sorted out). So Broad gauge isn't quite all that (besides, one gauge's narrow gauge is another's standard or so).

David, the Panama Railroad became a subsidiary of the Kansas City Southern Railway. While I don't know WHY the decision was made to reduce the gauge from 5' to 4'8.5", my guess is that a difference of 3.5" would not make much difference in the loading gauge and that standard gauge equipment is more readily available, thus less expensive.

Here's a link to the KCS website, regarding the Panama Railroad:

http://www.kcsi.com/corporate/pcrc.html

Hi , we have purple signals here , and im guessing these blue ones perform a similiar function .
They do not give authority to proceed , they simply indicate the setting of the points at a station or crossing loop .

On the panama canal , there is a excellent tv series avaliable on video / dvd . its called the seven engineering wonders of the world , and has a hour long program on the panama canal . very interesting .

I more than suspect that the railway was almost completely re equipped probably with a fair proportion of second hand material and stock.
With almost no usable existing plant and a probable reluctance on the part of an American operator to seek Russian supplies, reguaging was probably by far the least expensive alternative. Even if performance was an issue (most doubtful) 3.5 inches wouldn't make much difference. The 5' guage, though interesting must have been a nuisance all along. American builders could and did make 5' stock but the difference in price for a US based customer was probably noticeable.
LS

That explains it!
- The Kansas City Southern bought the Panama Railroad and is no doubt transplanting some of their equipment in Panama.

Just move one rail and engines and rolling stock will now fit.
(While visiting in the 1990s I was told much track had been washed out,
so they may as well re-lay it to standard gauge.)

And they probably replaced the copper wires which someone stole from a grade crossing signal and sold for scrap.
(Panama is a sad place - and shouldn't be.)

Thank you.

David Benton wrote:Hi , we have purple signals here , and im guessing these blue ones perform a similiar function .
They do not give authority to proceed , they simply indicate the setting of the points at a station or crossing loop .

On the panama canal , there is a excellent tv series avaliable on video / dvd . its called the seven engineering wonders of the world , and has a hour long program on the panama canal . very interesting .

PURPLE?
Where?
I'd like to see that and add it to my model railroad for more colors.

Thank you.
Switch signals would explain that.
But why not just switch stands.
Buthese were remote controlled switches - if that matters
I also saw lunar and red in a tall signal.

A MAN, A PLAN, A CANAL, PANAMA!

in New Zealand , they reduced some ctc sections to train orders . i think when they did this they left in the station signals , changed them to purple , and set them to indicate the points ( or switch )settings .
i think that the idea was that a train with the correct train order for the next section , could bowl on through the section without slowing down . so they need to see them from a distance .

Robert Gift wrote:My great uncle, a genious and a steam locomotivengineer on the PRR,
said it was unfortunate we settled on 4'8.5" instead of someting larger.
Said gauge limited size locomotives could attain.

Are broad gauge passenger cars smoother riding and more spacious?

Thank you,

PS Could we have a section about tracks, signals, etc.
I am fascinated with signals especially semaphores, wig-wags, etc.
I am in Yantai, China until 8-29.
They have dwarf signals with BLUE color. What does blue mean?

Brunel chose 7 feet for the Great Western from London to Bristol. It was extended as far as Cornwall (Plymouth and Penzance, and into the Midlands - Birmingham.

He was right that it allowed faster speeds and greater stability of the carriages. Nevertheless there were problems. Construction costs are greater as curves had to be less tight than with standard gauge. There is a reason why narrower gauges was chosen for hilly country. Broad gauge would probably have prevented many branchlines. The main problem of course was that many miles of track had already been built to standard gauge. Eventually the government stepped in and ordered that the GWR conform to the national standard.

The Panama railway originally used the Spanish gauge, also used in many south American countries (and BART), and India. The new owners are from the United States and presumably want to buy equipment off the shelf from the US.

george matthews wrote: Brunel chose 7 feet for the Great Western from London to Bristol. It was extended as far as Cornwall (Plymouth and Penzance, and into the Midlands - Birmingham.

He was right that it allowed faster speeds and greater stability of the carriages. Nevertheless there were problems. Construction costs are greater as curves had to be less tight than with standard gauge. There is a reason why narrower gauges was chosen for hilly country. Broad gauge would probably have prevented many branchlines. The main problem of course was that many miles of track had already been built to standard gauge. Eventually the government stepped in and ordered that the GWR conform to the national standard.

The Panama railway originally used the Spanish gauge, also used in many south American countries (and BART), and India. The new owners are from the United States and presumably want to buy equipment off the shelf from the US.

I would add to the above. One day we must hope there will be a Pan-American railway from north to south. This would be standard gauge and replace all the very narrow gauge lines in Central America (three feet for the most part, or less). The Panama line as it is now would then be linked to the pan American line. The Colombian system was also very narrow gauge - three feet (I think it is all closed now) and so any new lines there would also be standard gauge. The Spanish gauge lines would not be met before Brazil or Chile (Ecuador is also narrow) and Peru I think is standard. Venezuela's new lines will be standard gauge.

Panama Canal Co. RR's 5 foot gauge, not the same as the Iberian 5' 6" gauge, was the same as used in the South of the United States back then in the 1850s. A Southern engineer may have helped the Tsar pick the same gauge for the Trans Siberian RR, but the South had converted to Standard gauge by the 1880s.

JimBoylan wrote:Panama Canal Co. RR's 5 foot gauge, not the same as the Iberian 5' 6" gauge, was the same as used in the South of the United States back then in the 1850s. A Southern engineer may have helped the Tsar pick the same gauge for the Trans Siberian RR, but the South had converted to Standard gauge by the 1880s.

I stand corrected.

JimBoylan wrote:Panama Canal Co. RR's 5 foot gauge, not the same as the Iberian 5' 6" gauge, was the same as used in the South of the United States back then in the 1850s. A Southern engineer may have helped the Tsar pick the same gauge for the Trans Siberian RR, but the South had converted to Standard gauge by the 1880s.

I stand corrected.

In South Africa there is a blue colour light signal, usually displayed as a red light above a blue light. It is an emergency aspect and means: "Stop - then proceed in such a manner that the train may be stopped within sight distance - points, where provided, are correctly set but track circuits are out of order and/or line possibly occupied".

A purple light appears only on a "wrong road" semaphore signal at night.

johnthefireman wrote:In South Africa there is a blue colour light signal, usually displayed as a red light above a blue light. It is an emergency aspect and means: "Stop - then proceed in such a manner that the train may be stopped within sight distance - points, where provided, are correctly set but track circuits are out of order and/or line possibly occupied".

A purple light appears only on a "wrong road" semaphore signal at night.

and this has What to do with Panama ?? and its rail gauge ??