When was the "A" Watertown line closed for good

I do enjoy visting Fred's house in Oak Sq. he has so many cool transit books, pictures and other things. I have seen his letters and pictures from the heavy battle days over the A line, what a guy... what a fighter he once was for public transit. To me he is Mr. Brighton raised in Brighton and he fought for what makes a community one and plugs the community into Park Street station.

what was the A-line's normal terminus in the city...Park St., Gov. Center, North Station, Lechmere,?

I think it was Park st.

Correct - the LRV's only had 'A PARK ST.' on the rollsign.

Jim

Someone mentioned earlier that there were pictures from the A-line on nycsubway.org but I can't find them. Does anyone know where to look?

danib62 wrote:Someone mentioned earlier that there were pictures from the A-line on nycsubway.org but I can't find them. Does anyone know where to look?

I'd be interested in seeing those also

they are under boston pcc's on nycsubway.org

Click here to go to the main Boston page on the NYC Subway Resouces site - then click on 'PCC Trolleys'. The photos are organized by car number, so you'll need to look for 3097-3146 which was the Watertown fleet.

Also a few nice shots in there of PCC's at North Cambridge, Waverley Square and elsewhere.

Jim

speaking of the Watertown line.. I grew up in Watertown and lived their from birth until i was 16, then moved up to NH. I remember the tracks alwyas being their for a long time til the rippped the up.. this is early 90's when i was still yong, i got a good memory though. I do remember more recently seeing i think is a Type 7 or a LRV inside the shop, im not sure if it is still their, also the bus yard is being used by the T for the turnarround for the 500 routes and a few others like the 57. I think now they are using the shop for something with the new Neoplans, anyone can help me out.

Jeff Ferris, who owns Ferris Wheels bike shop on South Street in JP, is not a nut or for the birds. He's a reasonable guy who cares about his neighborhood. I bought my bike from him years ago. Now, I'm careful not to talk to him about trolley service since the one conversation we had, but he's someone who disagrees about the service, not some vile enemy. I've seen people attack him in this forum at least twice, and I wish people would be a little more respectful and humane.
Now, I've been wanting the E restored since 1986 -- I kept hoping I'd get to ride it to high school -- and when I discovered the A line in the 1980s on the maps in a couple of the 1964 Red Line cars, I wanted it back too. I really had hope about the Oak Square plan when it was in the papers about 1990 or so. I'd still like to see them back, even though I don't even live in Mass any more.
But we should realize that people who like street running trolleys and people who like bikes are pretty close, much closer than we are to people who like big highway expansion projects. All of us want dense urban neighborhoods with businesses and houses you can get to without a car. A bike-friendly area and a transit area and a pedestrian-friendly area can all look very similar. We should make common cause whenever we can. That means that even if we disagree with Jeff about trolleys we shouldn't be rude to or about him, because he may be our ally on something else -- like more frequent bus service with better connections to the trolleys. How about bike racks on the front of hte buses? As I said in the Arborway thread, and as someone said here about the A line, how about buses that run to the railhead and have easy, free transfers or upgrade transfers to the trolleys?

Your points are very reasonable. Unfortunately, I think there is a sub-set of trolley advocates here who would rather see the Arborway and Watertown bus service fail (even if it drives away transit riders) in order to prove their point that rail service is superior.

Jim

aline1969 wrote:Just like the bike shop owner on south street in JP, that guy is for the birds too, idiot.

I don't agree with Jeff either, but he's as respectful of people who disagree with him as they come, clearly unlike some people. I think it's completely unfair to talk about him that way.

I understand the frustration involved, but this is a very contentious issue in a very divided community. A lot of people constantly need to be won over. If you have to resort to calling people in the neighborhood who are against the Green Line "idiots" to make your point, well, don't expect a lot of people to continue listening. Particularly when it's in reference to generally well-liked people who do a lot for the community.

I've seen people attack him in this forum at least twice, and I wish people would be a little more respectful and humane.

Arborwayfan,

Let me know via Private Messaging who's attacking him so that next time, I can "zap out" their messages.

I respectfully ask that they be left in there, because they illustrate an important aspect of this issue, and that is that it has unreasonably been framed time and time again as an "us versus them" situation, with neighbor pitted against neighbor.

It is important to address this kind of representation rather than delete it and pretend these attitudes don't exist, because in reality, a lot of friends and neighbors are on opposite sides of the issue and yet still agree either on the need for improved transit in the corridor specifically, or on the need to plan long-term for the continued viability of a thriving JP in general.

As Arborwayfan noted, people are coming at this issue with their personal needs first -- every one of us does this, and that's understandable. I want a one seat ride into and out of JP first, but I want Jeff Ferris's store to keep going strong, too, and the same for all of the other locally-owned businesses that JP's lucky to have a core of. They're why I want to go there. I just differ with some of those owners on what the best way to achieve that is.

Anyone who ever walked away from one of those public meetings on this project where people were shouting at each other viciously and had the opinion that one side or the other "won" just doesn't get it. It absolutely can't work unless people supporting the project take seriously and address the concerns of those who don't.

One of the real issues is that no one truly knows what the effects of restoring the line would be. Business owners have a legitimate complaint that parking loss could affect business, however better transit to from JP could attract more residents and/or business from elsewhere.

I live on Beacon Hill and if the Green Line didn't go down Beacon St. or Comm. Ave, I wouldn't go to businesses/restaurants in those locations nearly as often. In fact, that's one of the main reasons I've only been to Centre St. in JP once.

In my opinion, restoring the trolleys would be a net gain for JP, but it probably would not be without growing pains. Traffic enforcement would be necessary, and something would go wrong with a trolley and snarl traffic. However, I think it would open up JP to a lot of people. Let's face it, for whatever reason, a bus in any form has a bad stigma to many people who will gladly ride the Green Line.