Penn Division - Under Starucca vs. Over Tunkhannock

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John_Henry
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Post by John_Henry » Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:53 am

Sween,

Remember that the LV above Coxton is only operted by R&N part way, and NS the rest. It is the only water-level route north out of the Lackwanna or Wyoming Valleys. With the tonnage restriction on the ex DL&W, I would bet the LV rises in stature sooner rather than later. It is alsmost as well engineered as the DL&W.

You heard it here first... come back in 10 years and see if I am on to something.

JH

Railjunkie
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Post by Railjunkie » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:58 am

CP169,

The signs you saw is for defect detectors, CN markes the spots were these are located they read out both in english and french.

CP169

Post by CP169 » Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:36 pm

Railjunkie,

Thanks, I've always wondered about the reason for those signs. They must have quite a few detectors on that route.

Railjunkie
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:24 am

Post by Railjunkie » Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:03 pm

CP 169,

Its been a while since I made a trip north but if memory serves me there are only 2. I dont have my CROR book handy to confirm.

ChiefTroll
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Location: Severna Park, MD

Post by ChiefTroll » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:19 pm

I found an error in my post of Apr 02, 2004. I meant to say that northward D&H trains from Wilkes Barre picked up at Hudson, not Buttonwood. They did not go into Buttonwood, because the PRR delivered all of their northward traffic to Hudson.

BlockLine_4111
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Location: Northern NJ

Post by BlockLine_4111 » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:01 am

See below

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dh/dh705alb.jpg

This is when there was "plenty of freight to be hauled by rail" back in hey dey. How times have changed.

oibu
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Post by oibu » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:15 pm

"Remember that the LV above Coxton is only operted by R&N part way, and NS the rest. It is the only water-level route north out of the Lackwanna or Wyoming Valleys. With the tonnage restriction on the ex DL&W, I would bet the LV rises in stature sooner rather than later. It is alsmost as well engineered as the DL&W. "

It is an option, but personally I think CR and NS gave it up for a reason. Also, it'd be an awful lot of extra miles to go all the way out to Waverly and back just to avoid one hill. (64 miles BD-Dupont via the current D&H main/exDL&W vs. 142+/- miles via the LV/Southern Tier from Dupont to BD)- 78 miles is an awful lot of extra mileage to maintain to avoid one 10-mile hill!

Heck the LV routing is still 36 miles longer than the current route of former DL&W to Binghamton/Southern Tier Line west, even for the Buffalo traffic! So if it's a choice of maintaining one line vs. the other, and taking the north/south traffic into account, it seems pretty clear to me which route would be favored.

Might make sense for westbound traffic to/from Buffalo, but not for north/south traffic. And NS has the Buffalo Line as well, so the old LV is really redundant twice over even for the Buffalo traffic. If anything my bet would be that IF enough traffic were to run the old DL&W, they'd just start basing a helper assignment at Taylor. This just depends on having enough traffic to keep a helper crew busy enough at getting enough trains over the hill fast enough/with fewer locomotives so that they aren't sitting much between trains twiddling their thumbs. And in the meantime, they'll just run trains with plenty of power on the head end.

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2nd trick op
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Location: Nescopeck, PA ..... NS Sunbury Line MP 715

More than Grades

Post by 2nd trick op » Sat May 26, 2007 10:42 pm

Not sure how nuch of a factor this would be, but it's worth noting that curvature is often a factor in the economical operation of a rail line as much as grades, and the Nicholson cutoff, built around 1911, is an extemely well-engineered piece of railroad.
It's also possible, over the longer term, that pressure to open the former West Shore line to commuter or Empire Corridor service might eventually divert additional north-south traffic onto this route.
What a revoltin' development this is! (William Bendix)

Superglide
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Location: Right Coast

Other factors

Post by Superglide » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:44 am

One advantage to running anything on the LV is to get around the black hole at East Binghamton Yard. Trains go in and seem to disappear forever so anything that avoided that mess would be a plus.

On the downside...Vosburg. Last I heard, it was in pretty bad shape and did not have clearances for stacks or racks. The bridges are probably in better condition than the old tunnel.

Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

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toolmaker
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Location: Scranton, PA

Re:

Post by toolmaker » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:44 pm

John_Henry wrote:Sween,

Remember that the LV above Coxton is only operted by R&N part way, and NS the rest. It is the only water-level route north out of the Lackwanna or Wyoming Valleys. With the tonnage restriction on the ex DL&W, I would bet the LV rises in stature sooner rather than later. It is alsmost as well engineered as the DL&W.

You heard it here first... come back in 10 years and see if I am on to something.

JH
I was just reading this old string. Only 2 more years to see if this prediction pans out. Of course the Marcellus Shale traffic has changed the lines usuage.

-Gary
-gary

“If practice makes perfect, and if nobody's perfect, why practice?"

Mike Stellpflug
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Location: Hemlock, NY

Re: Penn Division - Under Starucca vs. Over Tunkhannock

Post by Mike Stellpflug » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:41 pm

Been scanning some slides from the good old days:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85501582@N03/8968593965/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Near the end in 1985:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85501582@N03/7860481952/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85501582@N03/9180690904/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mike

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charlie6017
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Location: Rochester, New York

Re: Penn Division - Under Starucca vs. Over Tunkhannock

Post by charlie6017 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:34 am

Great photos Mike. Glad you took the time and effort to record these movements! ;-)

Charlie
~Charlie Ricker

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